All things Dungeon

Discussion in 'Debates & Discussions' started by Captain BlackJack, Aug 4, 2020.

  1. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    9%
    Messages:
    2,630
    Likes:
    1,521
    xp:
    1,018
    LitCoin:
    462,276
    Zorkmid:
    32
    Richter currently has a pretty weak hold on his lands. Let alone invades, the three minor tribes the kindir talked about and stragglers like the forest sprites do not even acknowledge his rule. There are numerous ruins, some of which are held by other powers. For example the ancient dungeon with the paintings and the demand for sacrifices.

    Most of the area is unexplored and effectively unclaimed. There are no minor forts, no roads, no significant infrastructure and Richter hasn't developed his magical ties to the land either (the mist root can be brewed into a tea that helps with that).

    For the region that is developed, around the village primarily, he gets notifications about what is needed in the form of quests. From outside the village, he gets nothing apart from the big pop quests.


    As for the wealth, I think you are overstating the case a bit. I agree the village is extremely well off when it comes to farming and food production.

    Unfortunately the primary sources of income for the village will likely be the core forge, the cauldron and the Dungeon. The core forge currently only gives a small boost to quality as well as a default trait that gives an extra 10% damage against magical barriers. A similarly sized facility in the kingdom of Yves with a similar mix of smiths and a reasonably good set of enchantments to work with wouldn't be that much worse off. As an example of what can be done with just a few enchantments, think of the troll mercenaries. Even Richter was impressed with their standard enchanted gear, their magical rings and so on. The bugbears also seem to have quite a bit of enchanted gear, as do the sprites.

    The cauldron is capable of mass producing potions, but those potions aren't that much better than a potion produced elsewhere. Not unless you are willing to store the potions for a very long time.

    The Dungeon has thus far mostly spat out nothing better than a few silvers, to a high-level team of adventurers.

    All of those have the potential to earn thousands of gold a year for the village, but at the moment they haven't really gotten rolling yet. Richter needs to invest heavily into levelling them or researching supporting tech that gives extra bonuses to give them an edge.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
    Mister Bill likes this.
  2. darkenedstar

    darkenedstar Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

    20%
    Messages:
    308
    Likes:
    272
    xp:
    520
    LitCoin:
    3,017,778
    Zorkmid:
    197
    I suspect that richters chaotic aura is going to be playing a part in how fast and effectively yves can martial forces to move on MV. I figure it’s going to be kicking of Murphy’s law at every turn. Just like it does for richter. The difference is mist village is still small and has less that can go wrong at any given time. The villager have also been effected longer and learned to work with it to a degree.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
  3. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 17 (Theurgist) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    81%
    Messages:
    1,274
    Likes:
    954
    xp:
    881
    LitCoin:
    2,488,075
    Zorkmid:
    162
    In a few years the mist village should have quite a few sayings about 'the best laid plans' and 'shit going sideways at a moments notice'
     
  4. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    9%
    Messages:
    2,630
    Likes:
    1,521
    xp:
    1,018
    LitCoin:
    462,276
    Zorkmid:
    32
    Agreed Yves has a lot of things that can go wrong or act as distractions. They are surrounded by enemies. Dwarves, elves, gnomes, etc. they don't just forget the theft of Mines, Core's, pop's, Dungeons and territories that happened in the youth of the current leadership. They want those things back. Grudges must be settled. :)

    Caulder mentioned back in book 1 that he had once been stationed on the border to the whisper woods to help defend the kingdom against incursions. If we look at the map that's the brownish woodlands covered in purple mist that seems to be eating its way into Filonar, the realm northwest of Yves. The HM has also talked about the whisper woods being a dreadful, evil place.

    From an Yvesian perspective, this region could be a huge concern. The evil power(s) that destroyed the whisper woods seem like a bigger threat than the lich. I think the village, even with all its treasures, will be a fairly low priority. Its distant from the kingdom and it involves starting a war against the HM, her allies and many of the other forest tribes.
     
  5. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

    24%
    Messages:
    1,610
    Likes:
    567
    xp:
    724
    LitCoin:
    6,271,262
    Zorkmid:
    405
    I’m not going to look up anything as I feel there is no need for me to quote the book. I just don’t see myself over embellishing things. Ricther has a weapon that can make Kings that other Kingdoms would gladly fight over. He has three magic cores which we know kingdoms have gone to war over a single core much less three. Ricther has made a point to personally equip all his men with the best of equipment. Their Lord gives them a pint after every days work. Many kingdoms have dungeons and they would be more then happy to gain another. I am quite sure wars have been fought over dungeons as well.

    If those mercenaries were hunting Ricther for the Count he will have a good idea where Ricthers village is. Randy mentioned the ease of which they could come by the river. One or two weeks they could be on top of the Mist Village. As you mentioned Ricther doesn’t have a good hold on his lands. As it is the alliance likely physically controls more of his lands then he does himself. With that in mind. Do you think that if the Count came in full force taking the MV that the Hearth Mother could or would immediately dislodge him? I personally would find that hard to believe. At the moment the Hearth Mother and her Allies have their hands very full. They are being invaded from all sides. For the HM to possibly gather a force large enough to combat an army of that size she’s would need to withdraw troops from areas where troops are needed to fight the alliance. The different races of the river peninsula are minuscule in comparison to Yves. I understand the Count would only wield a portion of that might but it would still be very large in comparison. It would likely take all of the good forces of the river peninsula united to take on a full army raised by the Count. I’m not saying his forces would number more then the Alliance either. If the Count were to hear of all the things Ricther has in his Village he would most certainly invade.
     
  6. Sleepyhe4d

    Sleepyhe4d Level 8 (Thug) Exiles Citizen

    18%
    Messages:
    24
    Likes:
    19
    xp:
    159
    LitCoin:
    4,080,246
    Zorkmid:
    274
    Over what time period are we talking right now? I agree, that it is interesting for a war, but as you all said: Seems like everyone is at war everywhere, that’s the land. If Yvee would attack the MV, you think the other forces (like the alliance) would let a huge army just pass like that? How long do they need to gather abjure force? Does Yves even have a way to stop the effect of the mist? Even if they have a formula, how long do they need to produce a potion (or something else) for the whole army.

    How long does it take for a king to recognize rumors and start sending someone to check them and for that person to get to the MV safely and report back accurate information?

    And in counteracting: How long does Richter need to make the MV stronger by another one, two, three random overpowered means to counter that army? Something like:

    „You cleared the 7th floor of the catacombs. That‘s equivalent for the first 3 floors. Congratulations, your village reaches lvl 2. That’s a new record, you are granted 7 wishes and here are millions of gold and get the invincible buff for a year“ or of course he finds something stupid strong for the core from the chaos points.
     
  7. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    9%
    Messages:
    2,630
    Likes:
    1,521
    xp:
    1,018
    LitCoin:
    462,276
    Zorkmid:
    32
    Richter won't be taking the yvesian or the alliance army on for a long time to come, not if Aleron has any sense of proportion. Its 200 mv soldiers vs a power that can raise tens of thousands of troops. We saw how Richters forces fared against the troll mercenaries and they were just some hired thugs.


    As for cores being worth kingdoms going to war over, that is canon. I just think Yves will pick their moment rather than go straight for the jugular. At the moment the forest tribes are waging a huge, costly war against the alliance.

    As they say
    "The mantis stalks the cicada, unaware of the oriole behind"

    [​IMG]

    No matter who wins the war Yves is well positioned to take advantage, either of the forest or they could strike elsewhere while the forest tribes are too weak to intervene (perhaps against the golden sands or fionavar?). Given the rise in anti-nonhuman sentiment amongst the yvesian populace it would be fairly easy for the king to sell a war of extermination/"relocation to a reservation" as justified. Upon success they would gain every pop in the region as well as access to all the racial treasures. There would also be plenty of land for homesteaders willing to take a bit of risk.
     
    Mister Bill likes this.
  8. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

    24%
    Messages:
    1,610
    Likes:
    567
    xp:
    724
    LitCoin:
    6,271,262
    Zorkmid:
    405
    I think that Yves “proper” will be drawn into conflict due to the Count and his kidnapping and slave taking. They are also set up as villains due to their racial injustice. It’s not that I just think it’s going to happen Aleron has set it up that way in his story. Unless Aleron intends to make a complete liar out of the assassins that escaped the MV. We were told by the female assassin that the mercenaries had been sent by the Count. So it appears to me that the MV has some what been located and scouted. We have also been told that the Caravan from Yves has been followed. Even though we were told that they would be taken care of. I would think that by the time the caravan reaches the MV the mercenaries should be have made there way back to Yves. At that point the Count should be properly pissed.

    Considering the Mist and the village it seems there have been many rise and fall as leaders of the MV. The Mist can’t be that great of a defense. We know the kinder have a potion that allows them to see and it was said that some mages could dispel the effects. If I were to beat on it I would wager that the oldest kingdoms around the river peninsula would have had some previous dealings with the now demised leaders of the MV.

    As for the Alliance Ricther himself won the MV from the Alliance. It was even said that they were trying to reawaken those long lost and forgotten places. If the Alliance gets a chance they would gladly take the MV the same as the Count from Yves. The only people that would come to Ricthers aid are his Allies which are locked in a war for their own territories at this time. Besides the Alliance they still fear and are searching for the eaters.

    My only question is how many powers at play are really at work? Could it be that there is a single puppet master that is pulling the strings in Yves and the Alliance. Might that puppet master tie into the desperate attempt to break the lock that is the Land?
     
  9. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    9%
    Messages:
    2,630
    Likes:
    1,521
    xp:
    1,018
    LitCoin:
    462,276
    Zorkmid:
    32
    I don't think its a question of being located, Richter cannot hide the existence of a settlement while also establishing a trading network centered around it.

    Its also established fact that the count knows he is there. The king of Yves likely thinks of the mist village as a minor vassal of the HM, he might even have known before the count did that the former slaves were going upriver to a location there.

    The question is whether the king cares enough about getting the village to start a war with the forest tribes. I don't think he will, because he has bigger concerns.

    Also, I agree Aleron has set the kingdom up as a foil for Richter. But its a midgame foil in my opinion, after Richter uses the alliance invasion to unify the forest tribes, the kobolds and possibly the firetip mountain dwarves under his rule. At that point he is ready to face the yvesians in the open field and beat the snot out of their crackpot king.

    I think there is a puppeteer, controlling the alliance and the kingdom of yves. He could be an exile worshipper, but its also possible he is moving on his own initiative.

    For me the question is: Is the king the puppeteer or is he under someone else's control?
     
    Captain BlackJack likes this.
  10. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

    24%
    Messages:
    1,610
    Likes:
    567
    xp:
    724
    LitCoin:
    6,271,262
    Zorkmid:
    405
    I think it is very possible to become a country of trade in Ricthers world with out having them in your “house”. I reiterate that Ricther could open a port of trade right on the river. He could also create a dungeon store which in my opinion would be BOSS. A dungeon hewn cavern large enough to house a store perhaps a tavern and a source of fresh water. What would adventurers be willing to pay for fresh melons or eggs? Something other then dungeon diving rations might bring a pretty price.
     
  11. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    9%
    Messages:
    2,630
    Likes:
    1,521
    xp:
    1,018
    LitCoin:
    462,276
    Zorkmid:
    32
    Possibly quite a bit. I'd say that depends on how common dungeon spheres are. If I could teleport back to the Dungeon entrance and back at no cost, I'd be leaving the Dungeon on a daily basis to sleep and eat outside in safety.
     
  12. Mister Bill

    Mister Bill Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    59%
    Messages:
    532
    Likes:
    255
    xp:
    559
    LitCoin:
    93,677
    Zorkmid:
    10
    Yeah, those are good ideas. It all depends on how much they want to spend on fighting Richter. Maybe they pay some mercenaries to take it over or they just stick with taxing over the long term, especially if his place gets gigantic.
     
  13. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    9%
    Messages:
    2,630
    Likes:
    1,521
    xp:
    1,018
    LitCoin:
    462,276
    Zorkmid:
    32
    The sund dues were a huge tax. They took 2-3% of the cargo value, not 2-3% of the profits made. For wares with low profit margins, they might have had to hand over 10-25% of their eventual profits. To avoid merchants lowballing them, the danish authorities retained the right to buy the cargo at the stated value.

    This tax was repeated for every passage, meaning that the merchant had to pay another 2-3% of cargo value on the way back.

    In addition to which there were the regular taxes and dues for trading.


    Yves would be able to milk the village for thousands of golds a year with a minimal investment on their part. Tens of thousands a decade down the road.
     
    Mister Bill likes this.
  14. Mister Bill

    Mister Bill Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    59%
    Messages:
    532
    Likes:
    255
    xp:
    559
    LitCoin:
    93,677
    Zorkmid:
    10
    Dang. Those are crazy numbers.
     
  15. darkenedstar

    darkenedstar Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

    20%
    Messages:
    308
    Likes:
    272
    xp:
    520
    LitCoin:
    3,017,778
    Zorkmid:
    197
    Kinda wondering if the dungeon entrances will all have the flanking defenses. If so than it could be possible to place them strategically around the village to add to the defense of the village. Also there is no more need of enemy mass graves in the village, they may already be dead but the dungeon will consume them anyway. It will still gain from it just not as much.
     
    Mister Bill likes this.
  16. Mister Bill

    Mister Bill Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    59%
    Messages:
    532
    Likes:
    255
    xp:
    559
    LitCoin:
    93,677
    Zorkmid:
    10
    I very much doubt that they will. The one in the nearby city they talk about didn’t have ‘em from what I remember.
     
  17. darkenedstar

    darkenedstar Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

    20%
    Messages:
    308
    Likes:
    272
    xp:
    520
    LitCoin:
    3,017,778
    Zorkmid:
    197
    We don’t know anything about yves dungeon except it’s name and elements
     
  18. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

    24%
    Messages:
    1,610
    Likes:
    567
    xp:
    724
    LitCoin:
    6,271,262
    Zorkmid:
    405
    I’m not so sure it works that way. If I’m not mistaken Ricther can use his dungeon transport to the dungeon but not out of it.

    If you are referring to what I was talking about above then you have me wrong. My suggestion is that if there are excess dungeon points set aside for the dungeon master or keeper to use Ricther could get creative in Yves.

    Ricther could absolutely use a hidden dungeon entrance to Yves. He could use build another four sided portcullis. Then he could build another spherical stargate type of portal as he did in the MV. That would grant him instant access by portal, or near instant with dungeon transit. If Randy and Ricther can take the heart crystal of HoEH’s the “all of above could be possible. If they don’t take the HoEH’s Some of it might still be possible with Ricther’s extra Dungeon entrances. A hidden entrance with no granted access to Yves would allow Ricther to flood Yves with any products he choose to sell there. They could also return with anything the needed or desired to purchase. It would be the perfect smugglers route especially for Ricther. Ricther himself wouldn’t even need to travel to the entrance he would only need to use the transport spell. There wouldn’t be any way better to loot anything he wanted if it were within the spells range.
     
  19. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

    24%
    Messages:
    1,610
    Likes:
    567
    xp:
    724
    LitCoin:
    6,271,262
    Zorkmid:
    405
    What if Ricther can build a entrance in Yves? What if he then denies access to everyone there and that entrance is near another strong magical force or a large population? Is it possible that the dungeons motivations to feed and grow would that encourage it to open other entrances?

    We know the dungeon grants a free entrance with every fith level. How often does a dungeon create entrances out of its own desire?

    How much would an entrance cost to make?

    Pushing entrances to new distances and lands would make a dungeon master very powerful. Not only the wealth but the power to spread a dungeon through the inter dimensional growth capability combined with the utilization of dungeon transport would put an insurmountable price on Ricthers head. He could literally cloud run in on top of you then transport right out.
     
  20. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

    24%
    Messages:
    1,610
    Likes:
    567
    xp:
    724
    LitCoin:
    6,271,262
    Zorkmid:
    405
    We know some history of it and we know that it has an multiple entrances beneath the capital and one under the Kings castle. Randy would know anything and everything else up to his last dungeon dive.
     
    Belgared and Mister Bill like this.




Share This Page