Chapter Length

Discussion in 'All Things LitRPG' started by James G Patton, Aug 27, 2017.

  1. James G Patton

    James G Patton Horrific Pun Master LitRPG Author Citizen

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    This came up from something @WildAzazel mentioned about chapter length. It made me curious how other authors break down their chapters and scenes.

    Personally I have a chapter with 2-5 scenes, depending. They are roughly 4k words in length (it can span from 3k-6k depending on what I am writing, but average about 4k).

    Do you readers out there prefer shorter chapters? I.e. should I make each scene a chapter, or split it off to denote them in some way?

    Now, I am not looking for excerpts from books about this topic. I've read several and they are usually conflicting, so I mixed it up and came up with some kind of middle ground. Just want your personal opinions on it.
     
  2. DJ Schinhofen

    DJ Schinhofen Creator of Worlds. LitRPG Author Roleplaying Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    I just look for natural break points
     
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  3. James G Patton

    James G Patton Horrific Pun Master LitRPG Author Citizen

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    So every scene?
     
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  4. Paul Bellow

    Paul Bellow Forum Game Master Staff Member LitRPG Author Shop Owner Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    I switch them up depending on where I am in the novel and how quickly I want to pace things.

    James Patterson came up with the term "potato chip chapters" - lots of short chapters. The idea is that a reader, thinking the next chapter is only a few pages, will keep going as opposed to being confronted with a chapter that will go on 15 to 20+ pages.

    What I do personally is have my initial chapters longer to get the reader into the story. Toward the middle/end, some chapters start getting shorter to keep things moving quickly.
     
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  5. James G Patton

    James G Patton Horrific Pun Master LitRPG Author Citizen

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    This makes sense. I will try that with my next book and see how it plays out. I could definitely see shorter chapters pulling the reader along quicker. If I break out my scenes into a chapter, then it also gives me more control during editing. I have no problem making things smaller for edits, haha.
     
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  6. Paul Bellow

    Paul Bellow Forum Game Master Staff Member LitRPG Author Shop Owner Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    You can also use mini-cliffies at the end of the chapter to keep them reading. I do that all the time.

    Chapter length definitely helps with pacing too.

    Good luck!
     
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  7. Paul Bellow

    Paul Bellow Forum Game Master Staff Member LitRPG Author Shop Owner Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    http://www.storygrid.com/414/
     
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  8. Paul Bellow

    Paul Bellow Forum Game Master Staff Member LitRPG Author Shop Owner Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    I think it was Story Grid who came up with the term, maybe? Patterson is famous for it, though.

     
  9. James G Patton

    James G Patton Horrific Pun Master LitRPG Author Citizen

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    Yea, I was combining scenes into one chapter as it made sense. I'll start making my scenes chapters instead.
     
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  10. WildAzazel

    WildAzazel Death's TP Supplier LitRPG Author Roleplaying Shop Owner Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    Headshot! had perfect length chapters and endings.

    btw, i got the Finn reference :) thought that was cool.
     
  11. CheshirePhoenix

    CheshirePhoenix Crazy Hermit on the Hill LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Editor Aspiring Writer

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    They missed the perfect opportunity to call them "potato chipters"
     
  12. James G Patton

    James G Patton Horrific Pun Master LitRPG Author Citizen

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    Just wait... haha.
     
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  13. Matthew Siege

    Matthew Siege Level 10 (Filcher) LitRPG Author Citizen

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    Allow me to procrastinate. I got a lot of compliments on the pacing/chapter length/"must keep reading" aspect of Headshot's first book. (Thanks for all of the kind words, @WildAzazel !) I want to say that every scene is a chapter, but I'll go back through the manuscript here in a sec and confirm...

    Okay, there are 50 chapters (and the whole damn thing is 103,355 words). I apologize if the formatting that follows sucks... It'll go Chapter_wordcount_how or why the chapter ended there. There might be spoilers, if anyone cares about such things.

    1_319_end of in character thoughts about game
    2_733_end of IRL scene
    3_2748_In game now, getting bearings, end of scene
    4_1978_ambushed and escape (mini cliffhanger)
    5_923_end of scene
    6_1516_game mechanics hit upon_end of scene(Also times skip ahead...)
    7_1836_bit more game mechanics and how they change strategy_tries to log out
    8_1280_log out
    9_834_IRL section (chapter ends because time skip coming up)
    10_1492_more IRL_chapter ends when he's about to log in
    11_2633_in game_end of scene
    12_1953_mini cliffhanger
    13_2301_mini cliffhaner (game mechanic issue as opposed to last chapter...)
    14_1519_end of scene
    15_1853_log out
    16_2196_log in
    17_477_game mechanic question (essentially a mental cliffhanger)
    18_1657_end of scene (not really, but the protag thinks it is)
    19_1968_NOW that earlier scene ends
    20_1560_end of scene (some urgency)
    21_1947_combat begins (possible tiny cliffhanger)
    22_2819_end of combat scene
    23_3505_this should probably be 2 chapters because he logs out in the middle. Alas. :) Scene ends because he falls asleep
    24_980_scene ends as he wakes up
    25_3731_scene ends as he begins combat

    Anyway, that's the first half of the book. Don't know if it's useful but the chapters are pretty short. I also wanted to put a LOT of emphasis on the in game stuff, so the IRL chapters are short. His life isn't great and he wants an escape. I felt like I was doing a decent job of stringing the reader along and the first 25 chapters average out to 1,874, and that's not even considering the fact that the 2nd longest chapter should have probably been in half.

    I can do the rest of the book if this has been of use to anyone, but I imagine it will be more of the same.

    Not saying this is the "right" way. It's just what worked for me in my last outing...
     
  14. James G Patton

    James G Patton Horrific Pun Master LitRPG Author Citizen

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    Your chapters are about spot on with my word counts for my scenes. So yea I'll just change scenes to chapters going forward. Good information, and everyone seems to be on the same page.
     
  15. CheshirePhoenix

    CheshirePhoenix Crazy Hermit on the Hill LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Editor Aspiring Writer

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    I think it should depend on the pacing and outline of the book. When you outline, split it into beginning/middle/climax/falling action/wrap up and teaser. Then break those sections down into plot beats that happen in each section.

    Each plot beat should be a chapter of its own, unless it's a minor thing. If you switch to an antagonist, stick it between beats as an interlude unless it has more than one beat of its own. In that case, put it in between the major sections where it fits chronologically.

    Once you have the broad strokes plot outline, break those plot beats down even further. Ask yourself questions and answer them: who is participating? What is each character's role? How does this tie into the overarching plot at large? Who is affected that isn't participating and why? What will their reactions be? How can I as an author add foreshadowing and red herrings? How does this tie in to the last plot beat? How can I tie this beat in to the next?

    Then once you've got the entire book outlined, set it aside and work on something else. Usually you'd be outlining the second book in a series while writing the first - that way if something comes up in the one you're currently writing because a character demands it, you can still edit the outline of your next novel to account for that. Take one of my favorite authors, for example.

    Mercedes Lackey is an incredible author, and *VERY* prolific. At any given time, she has three books in the publishing pipeline - one that she's got outlined, one that she's currently filling out, and one that's in the process of being edited and revised for publishing. That's how she manages to write so many trilogies that don't have plot holes, dropped story threads, characters getting out on various buses, etc.
     
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  16. WildAzazel

    WildAzazel Death's TP Supplier LitRPG Author Roleplaying Shop Owner Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    One good thing about small chapters is it gives the reader a sense of accomplishing things. Not to mention, I read when I'm ready for bed. If my goal is to read a chapter and I'm 10 pages in and start to count pages to see whats left because my eyelids are heavy and I notice I have another 30 pages to go, it's a bit defeating. One or two more pages would be motivation to finish. More than that made me think, wtf? Headshot was the first full length novel that I've read on my kindle. Normally I stick to audio books but am trying to read more on kindle now. I've started many books and my hat went off to Matt for his pacing. The last three sessions wound up being 60% of the book. Now.. part of that might have been me coming down with pneumonia and having nothing else to do, but I had made it my goal to finish that one over this weekend.
     
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  17. DJ Schinhofen

    DJ Schinhofen Creator of Worlds. LitRPG Author Roleplaying Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    No idea I've never broken them down like that. I just break were they seem like it would work, which is 6-12 pages in Word format normally.
     
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  18. VRRanger

    VRRanger Level 12 (Rogue) Roleplaying Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    Great conversation, thank you guys!
     
  19. Tom Gallier

    Tom Gallier Level 15 (Guardian) LitRPG Author Citizen

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    Shorter chapters make the story feel like it's moving quicker, while longer chapters have the opposite effect. I aim for 1500 to 2k chapters, but when writing fantasy and fantasy-game based LitRPG my chapters seem to stretch out to 3k at times. I don't know why these two genres seem to make me write longer chapters.
     
  20. CheshirePhoenix

    CheshirePhoenix Crazy Hermit on the Hill LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Editor Aspiring Writer

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    How mechanics- and action-heavy are your books? It takes a lot of words to describe actions and I'm pretty sure that if you're inserting tooltips/menus/prompts/etc that it'll inflate the count too.
     




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