Their is no doubt in my mind that the Chaotic bloodstone created the dungeon. The aggravation I have here is the general loose use of the term dungeon. I kind of went into this with the old post dungeon or donjon My understanding is that the Goblins were useing the prisoners in book six for two purposes. One reason was to escavate a location in an attempt to find the chaos shard. The prisoners had been forced to mine the area after which they were being used as sacrifices. Those sacrifices were in an attempt to power the bloodstone. They bloodstone was being used to crack the magic shield guarding the Chaotic shard. When Ricther released the the New power of Chaos into the land it changed the bloodstone. The bloodstone was said to not have felt power like that in at least 15,000 years. I think that was when it first became sentient. The new bloodstone cut a deal with Ricther to save him and all his people if he would protect it for one year. When Ricther agreed the new Chaotic bloodstone personality transported Ricther and everyone else including some of the land and buildings
Water, I dont think the dungeon was transported. I think the “dungeon” was a prison dungeon. Really I think it was a Goblin forced labor camp built inside a mine that was dug out while searching for the chaos shard. We had been told by the goblins that they were looking for items of power and lost places of power. The Chaotic Bloodstone being the spellcaster teleported itself along with everyone else with the plane to become the item of power in its own dungeon. When the Chaotic bloodstone transformed itself it knew that it would be greatly weakened. The bloodstone even told Ricther that it didn’t know if they would ever met or talk again. The bloodstone seemed unsure of itself as if it didn’t know if it would survive. We also know that a real dungeon has to have an item of power. If the original prison dungeon was a real adventurer dungeon what was its item of power? If we claim it was the Chaotic shard why didn’t Ricther get the prompts for taking the heart of a dungeon? It that point it should have offered him to either take the IoP or claim the heart of the dungeon and become its master. As we know none of that happened. We were told that the Chaotic bloodstone became the IoP after it had teleported everything. That’s when Ricther claimed the Dungeons heart crystal. If you recall Hisako was completely shocked as the dungeon pushed up by them. At that point she recognized the dungeon as a real dungeon. No one had recognized the prison mine as a true dungeon prior to that.
I am still under the belief that Ricthers dungeon will still need rooms built for required items. An enchanters room, an alchemist room with a cauldron, a jewelers room, a crafters room, a tinkerers room, a workshop, a slaughterhouse for the village live stock, a meat curing room, a leather workshop a weavers room. Basically I would build an entire mirror image village in the dungeon. If a river entrance were made for the Dungeon I would definitely build a ships cradle. How awesome would that be? Captains could sail right into the dungeon then fight mindless skeleton crews for another ship. Instead of just getting a ships treasure you could take the entire ship. As I said before Ricther needs to feed one of the failed hearth tree and the abyssal tree to the dungeon. The magical tree scraps from making the tablets and the knowledge table need to go right on down the well of offering.
The chaotic bloodstone bargained with Richter to keep it safe from the sprites and it was explicitly said when Richter prevented Hisako from destroying it and was subsequently thanked by the Chaotic Bloodstone. The Chaotic Bloodstone is the item of power which means it was used to create the Dungeon. Though Richter claimed the Dungeon Crystal, it didn't 'really' become a Dungeon until he sacrificed the Adder. Additionally, there was no mention of any small-d dungeons the entire time they were going through the goblin encampment or leading up. This leads me to conclude that the Dungeon was entirely created by the Chaotic Bloodstone... I really don't see how it could be otherwise.
Really? Giant shard of chaos? Energy beams of raw chaos shooting into the ground all around them as well as into the bloodstone on Richter's waist? No other possible option popping up for why a dungeon was spawned out of no where?
Alright, fair point. I'll grant that the escaped chaos from the shard that Richter didn't grasp may have created some conditions for the Dungeon, but the only things we know for sure a Dungeon needs and is fundamental to it is an Item of Power and Harbinger. The Chaotic Bloodstone was formed after the chaotic energy escaped the shard. The Chaotic Bloodstone also disappeared and a new Dungeon in the Land was created after they were transported from the battleground; the CB which, by becoming the Item Of Power is safe from the sprites. I'll do a read through again though just to check my reasoning.
According to both the stone and the Hearth Mother, "living things" were transported so the dungeon had to be alive for the transport spell to target it as well. Meaning it existed before the bloodstone disappeared, since he cast the spell with the bloodstone 'in hand' (think it was floating over his head or something) then the CB disappeared. I'm all for not underestimating the power of the artifact level item, but I'm not adding conscious creation of a dungeon to its repertoire. Spoiler: Book 6 {}
I suspect that the Chaos Energy from the Chaos Shard created the right Environment (so to speak) for a Dungeon to Potentially form if the right things were in place to do so but that it was basically a Dormant Dungeon (alive but not functioning or active) waiting for those last needed things to Awaken it to true DungeonHood. But the process of Awakening to a Fully Active Dungeon didn't truly begin till the Chaos BloodStone not only just be inside of it but to had had time to truly Sync and merge with it. If I'm right then other Dormant UnAwoken Dungeons exist that could be Awoken in a Controlled Manner by having someone Choose what Item of Power and Harbinger to place within them in order to bring them to full life, as long as you know before hand that it's ready to become a Dungeon. Assuming some Item isn't already present within them from before it's partial awakening that could be used as an IoP by it.
I stand corrected. So the Dungeon was created by the release of the chaos energy that hit the walls and seemingly, after it just needed the Item of Power which became the CB and Richter later choosing the harbinger. Good on you, man.
If there was a dungeon that spontaneously jumped Fourth from the rays of Chaos what was it item of power? A “real” dungeon cannot exist without the Item of power. Without having a dungeon master the dungeon can’t have a real harbinger. Were we not told the dungeon master chooses the harbinger? With no dungeon master a proper dungeon with an item of power might make do with a dungeon boss. Defining a “dungeon boss” as the largest, roughest, toughest, critter living and running the show. I think it would be more like creatures playing “King” of the dungeon. I’m not so sure that the only things teleported were living. I find fallacy in her statement. Were the bat roost and the armory living buildings? It also teleported the hill and the dungeon. How about the weapons transported? I appreciate the quote as I was looking at bringing that to your notice. I would like to point out the main subjects of the conversation were the Chaotic bloodstone and the newly created dungeon. For those of you that don’t recall. A year or so ago I made the argument that “d” and “D” dungeons were actually living entities. My argument was that in the case of Ricthers dungeon the entity had been sequestered by the Chaotic bloodstone. Same as it had taken over the minds of its previous mages. I believe that is why the bloodstone was unsure if it would survive well enough to ever see or recognize Ricther again. It seems as if the bloodstone wasn’t sure of its ability to take over a dungeon. In your quote the HM actually gave the bloodstone more credence by saying “Augmenting it’s power with a dungeon” She also stated “I have told you that this is no mere lair” indicating to the dungeon “it is a living thing. Of course that was after her recognition of the dungeon popping into life right in front of them. That was when she ranted on Ricther for the bloodstone powered dungeon. So now we have a sentient Chaotic bloodstone that has taken control of a dungeon augmenting it’s power. So as the bloodstone learned the magic of the mages it consumed it has also made itself the item of power in the dungeon. With the bloodstone augmenting itself with the power of the dungeon as it had with untold mages magic it has grown into something the land has never seen. I believe that had been stated be Randy. As I said before we know that proper dungeons totally disappear with no trace of their existence when the item of power is claimed. So there couldn’t have been a proper dungeon prior to the Chaotic bloodstone creating one after it teleported everyone. I still firmly believe that the bloodstone had the dungeon entity looked away in itself. With its new found Chaotic energy and its new sentient self it created the dungeon after transportation. The second to last paragraph in shouts quote said ”Ricther nodded and wondered if the bloodstone had planned this all along.” “Had the relic know what the raw streams of chaos were turning the caves into?” “And the altered patches of land that were now surrounding the hill like a wall” “It was almost as if the were arraigned to protect the dungeon or more accurately to protect the bloodstone.” I suppose the real question should be which came first the chicken or the egg?
So you think dungeons being living entities have “seeds” waiting for the right circumstances to hatch? Or should I say be born? Wouldn’t that mean dungeons should be a lot more common? Basically any item that can be used to focus magic can be used for an item of power. I could see someone trying to create a dungeon by dropping an item that could be used. I don’t recall the stories telling that you could choose the item of power. I thought that the dungeon master only got to choose the harbinger. If you were trying to create a dungeon would you sacrifice people in it so it could feed on the life energies?
If I remember correctly it was said that if a Harbinger wasn't chosen by by Richter then one would be chosen for him, presumably a Call will be put out amongst to the stronger monsters from the surrounding area and once one enters would become the Harbinger. Presumably if there was an Item that could be used as an IoP in or immediately near that could be used as well, even if there wasn't a DM or DK anywhere near it. The things that would need to occur for a potential Dungeon to Form from an Interesting Location would be very, very Rare to say the least, so will incredibly rare and unusual for Dungeon to form. If course we really don't know what could be considered an IoP, but I suspect that it's not Limited to an actual Crafted Magic Item, possibly things like a Naturally Occurred Soul Stone(filled?), or a Substance that Channels/Holds a lot of Magic, or the Remains of a Powerful Magic Creature, ect? As for Why the Building's were Transported when they aren't living things, well considering that the Cloths and items On the living People were Transported then why not also the Buildings that were On the living Dungeon?
For those who believe the Ricthers Dungeon Existed prior to its teleportation you should go to chapter 52 in book six. Right before Hisako tells Ricther to “claim the Crystal” Ricther and all the denizens of the land heard the announcement. “A new entrance to the labyrinth has been born. This virgin portal to the realm of monsters can still be claimed. Let the race to adventure begin.” Then it said “All dungeons require two factors that determine their properties. The item of power has been supplied choose the harbinger.” Hisako told Ricther he had a day and a night to chose the harbinger according to legend.
Lol You had to know I would love that! I am going to say with Ricthers Dungeon there was NO Gestation. The Chaotic bloodstone pulled this one out of its hat. Like Ricther states he wasn’t sure if the bloodstone hadn’t planned all of it. From saving itself with the one year contract, to the contours it created in the land, to the small quake, and the spire popping out by Ricther. Ricther not only saved from the Hearth Mother, which it spoke to him about. It also rewarded him for that. Then again he came to its aid with the call of the dungeon. I am really eager to see Ricther level up in blood magic. Was it level ten he would need before knowing all the spells it had used while he was connected to the stone? Tell me that isn’t bad @$$ Ricther we’ll be able to cast a teleport spell! So do you think he will be able to cast the blood harvest also without a bloodstone to absorb the power?
Agree to disagree, I'll stick with "the raw chaos turned the tunnels into an immature Dungeon and started and accelerated growth, the Chaos voice in the Blood Stone recognized what was going on, stepped in to help secure its place in the world, and the Dungeon finished its gestation after the teleportation spell, raising the spire to show it was 'ready'." Level ten let him learn vitality puppet, but also unlocked blood mana which seemed to be a bonus for reaching the initiate rank. He still doesn't have access to dread harvest or the teleportation spell yet, but it is implied that he will once he reaches the required levels.
So you think the raw chaos created the life force or as I say “entity” that all dungeons have? I suppose it could have. Chaos is the power of creation and destruction as the HM tells us. That’s alright but what was it’s item of power before the Chaotic bloodstone made itself the item of power? My understanding was that all “real” dungeons had to have an item of power and that they would repopulate a dungeon in order to draw adventurers in order to feed. I knew he would get those spells when hitting the required level. I only recalled it mentioning level ten.
It didn't have one, only once it reaches (D)ungeon maturity (the spire finally grows) does it need an item of power and a harbinger. Until it becomes a big D Dungeon, nothing respawns, it doesn't generate anything yet, just consumes ambient mana and dead creature souls to move it towards maturity. If a little d dungeon is cleared that's it until either something else moves in to take its place. Now if there's enough ambient mana around to draw creatures to it that might speed up the process, or perhaps a death mana concentration might passively repair left over bones and "re summon" skeletons, but little d dungeons are just holes in the ground left by something from some time ago, filled with whatever has moved in since then according to what we have been told.
If the dungeon came into existence due to the chaos energy, it would have existed for a very short period of time before the IoP was supplied. I find it very plausible that a dungeon comes into existence first, and then an IoP is supplied after the fact. And no, you can't have a functioning dungeon without both an IoP and a harbinger. But from the HM's quote it sounds like there is a period of up to 24 hours after claiming the crystal in which to supply both.
After that 24hrs it would probably start Looking for them itself in some way, the Harbinger would be pretty easy, just send out a Call for Strong Monster's and those that get into Font Room and Bond with it becomes the Harbinger, might be a bit of a fight club moment as it looks for the strongest one it's Harbinger, but might still be Luck of the Draw. An Item of Power might be more tricky, unless it's Lucky enough to already have something in it or right next to it then it would probably have to send out it's Harbinger and Minions out to look for one, which would be even more Luck of the Draw of what it might get, especially if it was out in the middle of nowhere.
