Eagerly Awaiting Book 9 [SPOILERS!]

Discussion in 'Debates & Discussions' started by Johan, Feb 4, 2020.

  1. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Greed and stubbornness are the dwarven flaws, not a desire for power (that's a human flaw, along with greed and shortsightedness). :)

    The problem with Krom was that Richter had never earned his respect whether through blood or deed. The core turned that around and Richter won the dwarves over. It was a major political victory.


    It was understood that there would be significant dangers involved in settling the new village. We know from book 1 that most of the lands surrounding Yves are inhabited by either hostile or evil factions. Humans who settle there will inevitably invite conflict. Mama knew the risk as did the nonhumans.


    Richter did not know his name and that of the village would be spread throughout Yves. It was not implied that he would be taking on this risk as part of the agreement nor that he would be receiving further waves of settlers.
     
  2. 2tymes

    2tymes Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Citizen

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    I wonder how Richters vassals (once he acquires them) will affect his relationship with his companions. Seeing how deep the book says the vassal relationship is, I can’t see him and Terrods paths aligning long enough for Terror to continue to be a companion. Randolphs too for that matter. Him and Sion seem to be in it together. And factoring in the quickening him and Elora seem to be in it for the long haul too (especially since the pixies coming back is such a huge deal, and the light court King killing them off prior), but randy and terrod are likely not going to factor in much when Richter gets a few vassals
     
  3. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    To me the vassal relationship seemed like an alliance of convenience you can walk away from at any time no questions asked.

    On the other hand Randy and Terrod are bound by freely sworn oaths of fealty. Terrod and Isabella are bound to Richter by gratitude and by the fact that they are an integral part of the mist village community. Those are strong ties, stronger than whatever benefits Richter can offer a chaos seed.
     
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  4. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 18 (Magician) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Agreed, vassalage seemed more like a business relationship with the universe backing it up. Whereas the companion bond seemed more character aligned with the universe 'recognizing' how much the two people align in their goals and aspirations by giving them companion status.

    If anything some vassal is going to try and pit Richter against one or more of his companions, which will most likely end very, very poorly for said vassal.
     
  5. 2tymes

    2tymes Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Citizen

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    If I’m judging by the what the book says, companions are only that as long as their paths align (or something like that). So I’m not saying there will be a falling out with him and Terrod or Randy. (Isabella isnt a companion so doesn’t matter for this discussion) I’m saying that eventually he will outgrow the necessity for their companionship.

    Secondly it was established in the book that vassalage is all about choice and is far more serious than a vow so I’m not sure why you say it’s say come easy go. I don’t get that at all. Hell heman took an oath of fealty. I think book 8 makes it clear that a vassal is serious business.

    And as far as the ties being stronger because they are part of the mist community I disagree completely. Majority of the loyalty points from the mist villagers came when he boosted their strength to some degree. He says repeatedly as I grow you grow. The vassals will grow with him much more than the herbalist. So I have to disagree most of your statement
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
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  6. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

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    I like to relate everything accordingly to the books definition. In lack of a clear understanding in the series I go by how the term is used in real life. Vassals as we know are sworn people that are often given land grants which allow them to work lands under their protection. Historically not all vassals hold land, some hold offices others might hold rank or title. In Scion and Terrods case they are companions but they also hold rank under Ricther. It’s right that as long as their goals align with Ricther they will remain companions. After that they will still hold rank in Ricthers forces unless they step down or are removed.

    I totally agree vassalage is a very serious matter. Vassals are sworn to fight by their leader. At times those vassals with lands would be called upon to bring their sworn men to fight. Often those men were serfs that had bound themselves to a lord in a land contract for a term of a year or longer. Serfs were a lot like share croppers but they didn’t have credit at the company store.

    A vassal did give an oath of fealty. Although often there is a larger business relationship with a vassalage by not always.
     
  7. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

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    Drag, so tell me have dwarves been know to fight for things like Kingdoms? How about items such as magic cores? Would Dwarvin kingdoms fight over Ricthers Axe? I find interesting that you say the desire for power is a human thing and not a dwarvin issue. I think dwarves like gold because they understand the golden rule a true expression of power.

    I think you might overstate what one would expect moving to the hinterlands to settle and build a village. Mama and all of her people would understand the hardships of a new founded settlement. They would understand beast and monsters attacking at times. What they wouldn’t expect are the things Ricther had neglected to make clear. The Goblins have moved out of their homelands. The bugbears are also trying to make a move on the same territory.

    The settlers might considered they would have to deal with the Sprites or some other indigenous race to that area. But who would Have thought they would be fighting goblins and bugbears that were invading te entire river peninsula?
     
  8. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Heman did not take an oath of fealty.

    Most of his loyalty with his companions do not come from village interactions, instead they have history.

    The vassals will grow sure. I doubt they'll grow faster than a companion, companions share quest exp with Richter in addition to what they can grind. Additionally their main use isn't as fighters, Richter has an army of several hundreds for that. Instead Terrod commands Richter's forces and Randolphus runs his holdings - both roles are critical.

    Chaos seed vassals will be useful because they come back, their lives can be spent in pursuit of various goals. One or two might gain Richter's trust and they could become companions in addition to being vassals. There is no either or.

    Richter has earned most of the loyalty for showing care for his subjects, keeping his word and because of miraculous deeds such as bringing about the birth of the quickening and the pixies. Sure earning a couple levels helped as did increasing various affinities, but its not what changed things.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
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  9. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Randy should count as a chaotic being. He is chaotic 1 in addition to being half undine, and he is sworn to Richter's service already. Given his high level its probable that he isn't too far from reaching his threshold and of course his multiple masteries more than make up for his slightly lower stats. Once Mama arrives and can cover for some of his duties I think he would be a good candidate for vassalage.
     
  10. 2tymes

    2tymes Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Citizen

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    You speak in absolutes, but I just make assumptions based on what the book says and not what I think. So first Heman did take an oath of fealty the night of the party.

    “Sumiko told me that you were attacked by one of the new villagers. A villager that I allowed to stay here. I swear to you that I will repay this debt.”

    Nobody knows what capacity vassals will serve, but to assume that they will be looked at as expendable for various goals with a finite number of respawns sounds goofy. Why would they sign up to be a vassal if it wasn’t mutually beneficial?

    And to you last point I’m sure that all of the villagers respect Richter because he a good guy, but the positive vibes come from him making them stronger. A weather it be the FOH (all of the dwarves swore fealty after the one had a hand in creating a dark stone blade). The quickening:

    “From the expressions on their faces, they were stunned too. Some of them were only level one or two. Most people did not advance farther since the main ways of receiving experience were battle and quests.“

    Awakening their powers. Creating a house of scholarship, teaching them new writing styles. Being there for the birth of a celestial race. Creating a dungeon. I could go on and on and I like that you romanticize how they feel and I agree it is true to some degree. But each of these instances grew the power of the people THATS why their loyal.
    Taking in all of the second wave of people didn’t make them want to join the village. Not even paying them the same wage. But when they saw other children getting magic awakened they was like dang, I gotta sign up lol
     
  11. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 18 (Magician) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    That was definitely Randy
     
  12. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Where precisely does the Randolphus quote say that Heman had sworn an oath of fealty? Not everyone swore.

    Now as I said the lives of chaos seeds can be spent, thats the main advantage. That of course does not mean spending every life they have, but rather that they can take insanely high risks because there are no permanent consequences to failing in most scenarios. Richter even knows precisely how many lives they have left.


    You think their main loyalty comes from him giving them the power equivalent of pennies?
     
  13. Waterhobit

    Waterhobit Level 12 (Rogue) Citizen

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    I think the villagers are loyal because they recognize the opportunity for growth that the MV represents. Additionally they recognize the dedication of their Lord to work and fight by their sides, and provide every opportunity for advancement possible. He freely awakens magic in any of his subjects, he does everything possible to help them obtain professions, and most importantly, he knows how to party!
     
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  14. 2tymes

    2tymes Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Citizen

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    With everything you just posted. Them lining up the freed slaves, and the slaves bending the knee and swearing fealty. Then Randy saying one of the “new villagers” attacking you. And Sumiko saying it makes sense that one of you could get by my spell. Which she does when people joins the village. Because the names of each of the 200 freed slaves aren’t expressly written out you think Heman... It seems pretty clear that Heman swore fealty, I don’t honestly see how it’s debatable. But that point was never what I was getting at I just wondered how vassals would affect companions. Even with Heman you could tell Ritcher wanted someone to talk about Earth things with.

    And power equivalent to penny’s? I don’t get what your saying. Awaking magic is a huge boon. Scion cried. Getting 3 levels made sumiko soul bonded. He said enchanted weapons made his people that much more powerful than there enemies. So that’s another statement that confuses me. Heck even the scholars were astonished that he would share a new writing style with them. All his actions show that he cares enough to share knowledge and power that’s not pennies
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
  15. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 18 (Magician) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Some how I feel like the magic thing is bigger than is being let on. Like yes HM and everyone has told him what a gift he's giving and all that, but for not a single mage to go around and offer to awaken peoples magic in any province, to the point where everyone is surprised Richter is willing to is the weird part to me. Not even from a people being nice perspective, but like no crazy hermits, or travelling adepts who dgaf? I almost want to think there's a reason beyond money an status quo that makes people hoard magic but I can't quite put my finger on it.
     
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  16. Nick Siracusa

    Nick Siracusa Level 3 (Apprentice) Exiles Citizen

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    Dang, I wasn't even thinking about how each of his companions is tied to him in that way, and have much power in their own right. Terrod needs to step his game up and soon or he will be climbing an uphill battle. I'd really like to see him come into his own in the next book.
     
  17. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Well you need to be a master tier (or adept tier? )mage, which is pretty rare, or the Master of a place of power in addition to being motivated by a desire to spread magic to everyone that can be taught. And if you are that much of a good guy, there are probably a lot of critical stuff that needs fixing, evil that needs to be kept in check, etc.

    There are also magic guilds to consider, teaching magic where they hold sway could be a bad idea. Finally, there is the cost of later training to consider. Most people are poor, yet magical spells get really expensive outside of the lowest tier.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
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  18. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 18 (Magician) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Adepts can teach it too yeah. I'm not saying they'd go around teaching everyone to get to high levels, but awakening it in someone shouldn't hurt anything. I mean gentle rain was a level 1 spell and it would vastly improve any farmer's existence, or if a fire started getting unwieldy. Maybe not bile rats, but i'm sure there's a useful lvl 1 death spell on par with the other lvl1 spells we've seen
     
  19. Andrew Lynas

    Andrew Lynas Level 17 (Theurgist) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Bile Rats can be used to Hunt Down regular Rats in their little ratty holes, see useful.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
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  20. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 18 (Magician) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Fair, hadn't considered that.
     
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