First Kaos Seeds

Discussion in 'Debates & Discussions' started by David Echeagaray, Nov 5, 2020.

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  1. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

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    Some might be but I don’t believe they all are.
     
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  2. AndyJ

    AndyJ Level 8 (Thug) Exiles Citizen

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    Vampires probably have a really high level threshold for evolution given their lifespans. If they aren't level two then only the ones would be.

    OR super pale humans get Vampire as a tier two option
     
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  3. Andrew Lynas

    Andrew Lynas Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Most probably are, although there are probably Tier 1 Vampire Sub-Races (Vampire Spawns, Thrals, ect) and Vampire types above T2, both Aged versions and more unusual offshoot Races.
     
  4. darkenedstar

    darkenedstar Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Citizen

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    Nope i think vamp is a racial changes. Righter has come across a least 2 of those without needing to ‘evolve’. The race change in the sea of chaos and the quickening fruit. Tough some might not view adding the celestial appellation as a race change.
     
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  5. Andrew Lynas

    Andrew Lynas Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Racial Upgrade.
     
  6. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

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    I totally agree with you. Vampires are a race. When someone is turned they wouldn’t automatically evolve into a tier two vampire As many of you might think it’s an evolution others might feel it’s a devolving of ones being. Although if a tier two human was turned into a vampire it is possible that they would remain tier two.
     
  7. darkenedstar

    darkenedstar Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Citizen

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    A lich on the other hand would have to be an evolution. Singh as still a sprite, just an undead one.
     
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  8. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

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    I don’t know why would it?

    If so would a demilich be one as well?
     
  9. darkenedstar

    darkenedstar Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Citizen

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    Honestly if i were the one making the rules. Demilich would likely be a tier 2 death type evolution, leading to a tier 3 lich evolution. As to your question, i am as i have mentioned before making rules that make sense to me. Rules that are subject to change when new info comes along. I do not expect others to agree with them.

    In the games i have played, and stories i have read, none have had lichdom something that wasn’t sought by the lich in question and they had to work for it(evolution). Vampires on the other hand are almost alway created via blood sharing and death. Not something you would have strove to earn. These evolutions were most definitely something need to be earned in someway.
     
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  10. Hmmm

    Hmmm Level 7 (Cutpurse) Exiles Citizen

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    I was thinking more like..lich to lich lord to lich king. The vampire called him a powerful "lich lord".
     
  11. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    He was a lich who ruled over a settlement, making him a lord.
     
  12. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

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    If you look up you would see we had been talking evolutions and tiers as beings. We weren’t talking about Singh’s title.
     
  13. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    No but he may well be a lich lord in the sense that he is a lich who happens to also be a lord. That's not necesarily an evolution.
     
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  14. darkenedstar

    darkenedstar Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Citizen

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    No but given richter new chaos lord i think it is a safe assumption.
     
  15. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

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    I wouldn’t say safe but it is an assumption.

    Personally I just have issues with thinking that a Lich to a Lich lord and then a Lich King are evolutions. To me the are nothing more the titles. I’m not even sure if I would consider the transformation between a Sprite and a Lich an evolution. It is definitely a transformation. I normally consider an evolution something that evolves upward not into decay. Maybe I’m just a life type of creature. I can see an evolution moving one beyond the body. I just don’t see a evolutionary gain in being trapped in a decaying rotting body.
     
  16. darkenedstar

    darkenedstar Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Citizen

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    It would have been an evolution of power and mind(not mental magic).
     
  17. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    But that's the choice, also it's desiccated (super dehydrated) not rotting, so there shouldn't be decay more than has already happened. 100% bleed immunity, huge resistances to many many things that can effect the flesh, and being higher Tier. It's not a pretty ascension that's for sure, but it's based on the lust for power that individuals who choose the path have. Their greed twisting them into a very powerful corrupted husk of their former selves.
     
  18. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

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    Shout, decay and rotting don’t stop due to dehydration. Wet Rot does cause faster decay no doubt but all things dry rot. I understand you consider that becoming a Lich is an ascension of sorts and perhaps it is in Alerons world. I think it could be more of a side affect from magic and the desire to find everlasting life and power.

    We still don’t know if a Lich transformation means a higher tier.

    I also understand that supposedly a Lich is another form of Ascension where eventually the body is no longer needed. A living creature turns to maybe a living dead? Then a Lich, after that perhaps a demilich. Once nothing is left what does it turn to?

    When a Lich losses the vast remains of its body and has no chance to regain that life it’s still tethered to the mortal plane. With each stage of change one goes through becoming a Lich they lose part of their self or former life. Eventually there is nothing left of the original being.

    With Ricther beheading Singh the Lich, did he cut the last tie to his past granting that life the final death? Singh the Lich is still tethered to the Land by his phylactery. If Singh returns as a demilich will he know anything more then his name and magic? If Singh returns as a demilich and later his skull is destroyed what would his Phylactery bring him back as then?
     
  19. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    In the land of suspension of disbelief, why should a Lich in this universe work like it does in others?

    Before we go on "the 5e manual" "standard dnd" etc aren't actual arguments. Neither are logical fallacies like "prove it doesn't". Burden of proof that it does is on you. Yes Kong draws heavily from dnd races and other aspects, but it is his own universe where he can play Supreme Being with the rules. He could make the good races bad and the bad races good. He could make kinder into backstabbing mercenaries with a hard on for burglary. He won't because then they wouldn't be the kender he loves so much, but he could.

    Singh isn't coming back, the universe agrees enough that it gave richter rewards for final death, which seems to point further towards no phylactery. Beyond that nobody likes the whole "you thought I was gone but I clung to this world just to spite you blah blah blah" it's too cliche even for Aleron. He's given himself a jupiter sized planet to play with and he's gonna gonna have Richter fight the same antogonist over and over, without it being a chaos seed? I don't buy it.

    As for dry rot, that's a certain species of fungi that break down wood structures. Yes all things decay but his skeleton would be fine given the added resiliences of tier ups and the generally slow decay of bones to begin with. Couple to that the magical dehydration, and literally magic "death healing" and he's not going anywhere until he starts monologuing.
     
  20. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    His phylactery would most likely restore his lich body as part of bringing him back. The way Richter's respawn brought him back as he was before he got eaten by wolves, instead of as a pile of wolfshit.

    Low-tier undead fall apart over time, but thats gennerally not true for higher tiered undead in any fictional universe.
     
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