Foreshadow spinoff, Sion avatar of order.

Discussion in 'Debates & Discussions' started by Cire122, Apr 13, 2020.

  1. Cire122

    Cire122 Level 10 (Filcher) Exiles Citizen

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    Sion doesn't strike me as the avatar of order.
     
  2. ezra davis

    ezra davis Level 7 (Cutpurse) Exiles Citizen

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    Why not?

    Other than the fact that he is NG
     
  3. Cire122

    Cire122 Level 10 (Filcher) Exiles Citizen

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    Because he goes along with "depending on your perspective this is the easy part" and creates his own. People in books that represent order are rarely tricksters like with the skeeling.

    They are typically sterner sorts with an almost obsessive focus on following rules set up by authorities (moral, state, or self imposed.) They also typically despise chance, and making gray choices. Everything for them is black and white. Sion has gone along with and down played in his own mind Richter's more more morally questionable actions.
     
  4. Cire122

    Cire122 Level 10 (Filcher) Exiles Citizen

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    I would not be shocked if when we do find someone that represents order they are:
    An authoritarian politician or political follower (centralized power and top down vs decentralized and bottom up)

    Strict religious leader or follower (Must be a faith with little wiggle room/ gray area or contradicting points. Very little left up to interpretation)

    Mathematical/accounting etc. Type person (two plus two equals four and I see the world through numbers)

    Or maybe a follower of philosophy who believes in determinism.

    I am sure you all can come up with other examples of world views or outlooks that limit personal "CHOICE"
     
  5. ezra davis

    ezra davis Level 7 (Cutpurse) Exiles Citizen

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    With that said, it seems Dr. Kong is setting Sion up to eventually oppose Richter. The only Lawful good person that we know (I think) is the Queen of the Pixies.
     
  6. Commander Azure

    Commander Azure Level 8 (Thug) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    True, though it said the forces of Order, not Law. Not necessarily the same thing, like abyssal vs demonic vs hellish. It could just be a typo though
     
  7. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    We have plenty of less extreme examples of order. As I see it true chaos represents total randomness, but even the lords of chaos have a infinitely small flicker of order in them, otherwise they couldn't operate in a structured way. Similarly even the lords of chaos must have a capacity to choose to make choices, which comes from chaos.

    Possibilities from chaos, structure from order. Neither can exist in a meaningful way without the other.

    As for an example of order in the books, I'd say the obvious one is governance. The imposition of rules, law, structure, is definitely an aspect of order. Very few races exist without some form of governance, whether it be the barely tribal goblins or the great kingdoms of Yves and Rione.
     
  8. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Chaotic and orderly races would not necessarily have as antagonistic a relationship as good and evil races have. I could see order/ chaotic having more to do with how you live your life, thereas good and evil reflects what you do. My take is that they will be fine, though races with a high natural chaotic score probably wouldn't want to live under the restrictions of Richter's kingdom or any other state. Too much imposition of order in their lives.
     
  9. Cire122

    Cire122 Level 10 (Filcher) Exiles Citizen

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    The chaos seeds could be viewed as a plague tearing down established kingdoms and ways with their auras. We might see some order aligned people trying to keep their civilizations together maybe neutralizing the chaos aura with an order aura around them.

    Change is not always for the better. Would be interesting to see Richter being forced into conflict with good beings because they don't want his chaos messing with them. Could see points or Marks or some boon for killing someone of an opposite alignment with regards to chaos vs order.
     
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  10. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Richter has an aura but he is a special shellfish. Other chaos seeds likely do not have one nearly that strong. On the other hand, we have textev that some chaos seeds have shaken continent spanning empires.

    So yeah, another reason there will be conflict between some chaos seeds and natives.
     
  11. ezra davis

    ezra davis Level 7 (Cutpurse) Exiles Citizen

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    It seems to me that history always repeats itself. We have the light court and the dark court. Now chaos and order. If Richter is the avatar of chaos then there should be an avatar of order.
     
  12. 2tymes

    2tymes Level 10 (Filcher) Exiles Citizen

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    “Should he protect his people at the cost of limiting both their exposure to danger and their potential for growth, like a father would a child? Or should he let them enter a new phase of their lives, even though it would bring danger and pain? If he fully awakened his Place of Power, it would bring them horror, but it could also unlock their potential.”

    — The Land: Monsters: A LitRPG Saga (Chaos Seeds Book 8) by Aleron Kong
    The Land: Monsters: A LitRPG Saga (Chaos Seeds Book 8)

    This could speak to other villagers potentially ascending.

    *Sidenote the quickening fruit will supposedly one day help him to become celestial . Would a celestial chaos lord be Tier 3? If he hadn’t became a chaos lord would a celestial chaos seed been tier 2. I remember them saying how long lived people who are the fruit were, and based on book 8 he was still a regular human who could look forward to at most living 150 years
     
  13. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 17 (Theurgist) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    No I don't think so (tier question).

    Pretty sure he'd just be a celestial variant of a tier 1 chaos seed. Gets into a whole evolution vs Ascension argument. My first argument (and least effective) is that he should have been tier two just from chaos if being celestial makes you tier two. It could be that the sheer combo of both the higher energy of chaos and celestial nature might push toy to the second tier, but I call malarkey.

    Tiers and Ascension bring about bonuses like not being affected as much by attacks from tier 1 creatures (-20%). Evolution makes one more formidable as well, but it stands against Ascension in that it may not necessarily be earned, it just is. Celestials ( and shadow and void and chaos and angels and demons and abysal etc) have more Stat points per level and are indeed more powerful because of it and other various bonuses based on their nature, but they are creatures of circumstances (simply born to it, bonded powerfully by chance, ate a bunch of glowy fruit etc) where as tier two beings are literally going above and beyond what their race can allow.

    Edit: now that isn't to say that he and his people won't get some serious upgrades from it, but I don't think they'll be tier level upgrades. It likely opens up a new Ascension path when goes for tier 3/ when the villagers go for tier 2.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2020
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  14. Andrew Lynas

    Andrew Lynas Level 17 (Theurgist) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I agree, most likely it will be a SideWays Evolution to a T2 Celestial Chaos Lord Human, but will other more and better options the next time he Ascends.
    I suspect that when he becomes a Celestial besides getting his extra Stats (probably backlogged stats as well) he will also get access to upgraded Celestial Skilks, possibly gain Celestial Magic and maybe a few extra Celestial Racial Traits/Characteristics and maybe Abilities.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2020
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  15. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    No. Just as a chaotic human (a chaos seed) wasn't a tier 2, it was just an enhanced version of the baserace. We have yet to see a creature aligned with two major powers, but the bonuses are likely to be significantly better. A tier one celestial chaosseed should have at least 8 stat points per level as well as access to the celestial equivalent of the sea of chaos.

    For fairness sake, said bonus should be applied for levels already reached, reducing the advantage of being born as a higher creature vs earning it. That would also give a major windfall of statpoints for any villagers that evolve.
     
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