OH I got another one Im really starting to get annoyed by the games being linked to money its like every character ever starts out so desperate to save some loved one or themselfs monetarily but this seems to be forgotten until there so OP the two worlds are colideing (annoying trope btw) and money dosent matter anymore its annoying how there arent any books about how expensive and difficult it would be to play games 24/7 even your average streamer who supports themselfs usualy have to ask for alot of money just to keep afloat also why dont LitRPGs have lootboxes i think we all know a game that big would have atleast some form of lootbox
I'm starting to really hate the dreaded Self-Insert Main Character. I totally understand as a writer that every character is 'you' in the sense you create them, decide how they act, etc. However, I mean the ones that look like the author, have the exact same background, are from the same city, have the same profession, etc. etc. It just seems that every time that happens the author is mostly focused on making sure the MC (which is just them) is the most powerful, the most special, gets all the hotties, and has all this incredible power. It also just seems like the tactic of a less than skilled writer; I know that's probably not true, but if someone can't imagine anything more awesome than themselves getting to be super powerful, my eyes are glazing over with annoyance. It totally overshadows the entire story. The setting becomes less about making an interesting, unique world and more a tool so we can see how strong, progressive, and amazing the self-insert is. It also tends to bring out some very unattractive arrogance in the MC; a lot of the self-inserts are constantly going on about how clever, brave, and amazing they are. Normally in an annoying underhanded way of "Oh, gosh darn gee, I'm nothing special... But I am pretty awesome...". Quite frankly, I don't want to read about the author basically patting themselves on the back and wanking about how amazingly cool they are in their own story. Might be fun to write, but it's dull to read and I can't really get into a story where I feel like the whole time I'm rolling my eyes as I listen to some random person gush over and over again about themselves.
Can't lie - my first story was a self insert - not any published works, but the first few I cut my teeth on, wrote out start to finish, then printed,burned, and buried in the back yard and peed on. Self Inserting is super common for first works. LitRPG is full of a large number of authors doing first works. So it goes.
Lol... I did a self insert of a sort in my WIP... but I split it in half between two main characters... so what one character has, the other lacks... One is ruthless, the other is tremulous. One is cautious, the other is overly impulsive. They’re both smart though, as I hate reading about dumb protagonists... All in all, they act as pretty good foils of each other, as they are pretty much polar opposites Also, I don’t mention looks of my main characters to any particular degree, which helps to obfuscate the self insert
Heck, I'd be surprised if any writer didn't start with self-inserts! Or at least the idealized version of themselves they wish they were. That's perfectly normal. It's just dull as dishwater to read in a story because it comes off as self-wanking basically. Like the current series I'm reading has the MC acting with a ton of false humility (basically the book says he's so sorry/humble/whatever but his actions say otherwise) mixed with a ton of patting his own back ("He was totally sure he'd made the 100% right choice no matter what everyone else said!"). The other problem with heavy self-inserts is all the other characters are....empty and dull. They're clearly just there to frame the "awesome" that is the MC. I know supporting characters support, but they should also be their own person/character/whatever. Having them being boring tropes or shallow as heck so they can be compared to the MC is just dull. No amount of tragic backstory or "telling, not showing" helps fix that if they are just a set of one or two traits walking around so you can see that the MC is so much kinder/smarter/more clever/whatever than they are.
I dont know if this is related but im starting to hate the fact that most LitRPG MCs have no character whatsoever if i am to think back the only thing i can remember about most is there "motivations" and by that i mean the 5 sentances dedicated to why there playing Online Online: Online most seem to be entirely recationary makeing no real choices of there own or mistakes of there own I find it easy to overlook a LitRPGs flaws if it has a good MC and somewhat of a limit on power creep
This reminded me that I've found another Pet Peeve in the Genre. The MC is Destined to be a GOD one. Now, I have no problem with the character being chosen by a deity or something (actually something I have planned in a story), but my eyes have started to glaze over when I read rambling paragraphs about the MC getting visions of the awesome power they are destined to have or basically getting godlike powers because... Well, normally just reasons. They're just so awesome, they're going to get to be the most powerful incredible special chosen of the chosens ever. Gag me with a spoon. It's so dull because you know that there's no real challenge, there's no real effort, and that in the end, they're going to be rewarded with a million special OP things just because they're 'The Chosen One'. Like The Chosen One trope itself isn't bad, but if it isn't done right, it's just a boring wankfest of the author handling the character everything. They're going to be a god and that's assured so who really cares much how they got there? Normally I don't unless it's presented in a way that's exciting and interesting. I actually wish LitRPG had more 'Heroic Fantasy' instead of 'Super Epic Fantasy' that's mostly just the MC getting to be super special, super powerful, and super beloved by all, no matter how much of a donkey's rear they are. Heroic Fantasy is things like Conan, books by David Eddings and R.A. Salvatore, where the hero is still pretty awesome but the plot centers around them and their struggles, their triumphs, and not the 'world at large' as with 'High/Epic Fantasy', where everything the hero does has some world-shattering effect (like a lot of LitRPG). Heck, I'd even take some Low Fantasy, where the 'Hero' is out for their own goals on a moderate level instead of being some Chosen One special snowflake whose every action sends ripples through the cosmos. That said, High/Epic Fantasy is super fun, but normally with a lot of the LitRPG books, it's just done so poorly that it's just an expression of how overpowered and special the author's self-insert is, instead of an intense battle between good and evil, similar to Lord of the Rings, Chronicles of Narnia, etc. Books that are shown by the characters, but about a lot more than them. LitRPG takes the 'selfish' qualities of Low Fantasy and puts them on a 'High Fantasy' scale where the world revolves around the MC and that's really, really hard to do well, I think. I'm 100% sure it can be done, but it's difficult as heck.
Very good point here and articulates very well what I've been feeling. I hate self-inserts, I hate wish-fulfillment. I actually like smaller stories where the world isn't close to ending, the AI or gods don't think the MC is special in any way, and it's all about the MC's personal journey. When you're trying too hard to save the world, you forget yourself. And I guess that's why a lot of books, and movies, and everything else, actually, end up with empty "because plot" MCs.
Exactly! I don't mind the MC being 'a hero' but I'd love to see it on a smaller scale. It just feels more real/personal/immersive to me. I'm not a fan of self-inserts myself (at least not super blatant ones) and I actively dislike wish-fulfillment as it always seems to be done so poorly. The story suffers because the author is trying so hard to make their character super special, super vital, and super powerful. Power fantasies tend to bore me because they normally just come across to me as immature characters getting away with far too much far too easily.
My first story, almost a literal self insert. All my stories after, not even close. Though I write in first person, so there is some bleed between the character and myself - but I think new writers of all sorts lean toward self inserts easily. That happens. We also have a huge, and I mean huge percentage of the LitRPG author crowd as first time writers. I'd put together 5 other books (3 of which are never to see the light of day) before touching mine. There's a lot to be said about the "trunk novel" concept. Many writers I see that abuse the more common cliches / or stumble into pet peeves that lets say...epic fantasy readers expect authors not to walk into....are probably because the sheer volume of new people not having enough writing under their bel to get into the proper mindset. Sorry, this point may be concise or meandering - I've been drinking.
I think I understand what you're saying. And I get that new authors often have that issue. Honestly, I think a lot of them could benefit from having beta readers/editors that are not their friends. I don't mean people that dislike them, but people inclined to be more honest. Having your friends and family beta-read for you often doesn't give enough feedback and they tend to be afraid to call an author out on that sort of thing. Of course, even then, it's still up to the author to listen to what the readers say. A lot of authors also need to read in the genre more, I think. Like if it annoys them to read it, don't write it. Because it might be "awesome" to them, but chances are to readers it's just another self-insert or wish fulfillment or badly done trope. Grain of salt of course, as tropes aren't bad in and of themselves. It's just a matter of putting a little twist on the trope to make it interesting and not predictable.
I wonder how much of that is ingrained in the genre because that's how it always is in video games? I mean, even in MMOs, the storyline always portrays you as the One True Savior, even when there are thousands (or millions) of other people running around being told the exact same thing. There is a lot of wish fulfillment and self-insertion in the books, though. Especially lately with the trend toward erotic harems - it's hard to think of a more wish fulfilling fantasy than that one in particular.
That is very true. It's honestly a thing that kind of bugs me with most MMOs. I don't want to be the One True Savior. I'd rather just by the guy (or girl) that's just trying to get by and survive the situation of the game (whatever it might be). I personally for my own pleasure like a mixture of story line and sandbox. Where I can have quests and interactions and affect things, but don't have to be the super powered Chosen One. It's hard to find. I do like 'sandbox' ones as well, like Conan Exiles and ARK. Where you just survive and do your thing and write your own story, so to speak. That's very fair though and a very good point. So many games cater to the power fantasy of being the 'most powerful and most special' so I guess it's kind of natural that a lot of first time authors just assume that's what people want to read that since a lot of them want to play that.
Who even has the energy for a harem? If I had a group of slavishly worshipful followers I'd be like, ok, you weed the garden, you clean up after the cats, you cook dinner and I'm just gonna take a nap.
My pet peeves are: - Good scifi/fantasy stories that devolve into weird sex fetishes that make me want to stop listening - Sloppy editing.... and by this I don't mean making sure things are spelled right etc... I usually listen to the audio book so I wouldn't even notice this... I'm talking about using the same adjective 7 times in one paragraph, etc. - Casual misogyny - Unnatural dialogue
That's a big one for me as well. I roll my eyes so hard at A) casual misogyny and B)casual homophobia. It just drives me crazy. I don't care if the MC is gay, straight, or turned on by jello. I don't want to read them making comments like "hurhurhur, women! Am I right?" or "Pfft, no homo, bro" or stupid crap like that. I've read a lot worse and it amazes me authors think that's cute or endearing or "just what guys do". That's not what "guys do" at all. That's what jerks do. There's very little that makes me dislike a character faster than that kind of crap, especially when presented as just "old fashioned", "quirky" or "funny". It's freaking 2018. That kind of crap shouldn't fly anymore and any editor worth their salt shouldn't let that kind of stuff through the beta reads.
To note - editors come in different flavors. I've worked with 6 over the years and all of them had different issues they focused on, even though we paid them for the same type of editing. The MC can be dumb in some aspect, especially if that's a plot point that cause conflict and comes about later in the book. I mean, many of these virtual reality dives are like "yeah, I'm in a game. Stabbing people. And it hurts them. That's kool." and being misogynistic on top of being half a sociopath is hardly noticeable. But I wrote The Fiasco and had to put in a warning. "There are boobs. I notice them." or something at the front. That's a far more jaded main character though. Unnatural dialogue is far more irritating than a person having a personality trait that rubs people the wrong way - personalities that are abrasive are fine as long as they're consistent - especially if it sets up conflict. There's a lot of half thoughts written here. Sorry.
That's true. And honestly, I would be more forgiving if I read that kind thing of stuff and the MC was corrected or at least scolded for acting like that. The thing that bugs me is authors presenting that kind of behavior like it's totally normal and acceptable to treat women and/or people of other sexualities crappy because... Hell, I don't know why? The silly idea "that's just how guys are, haha". I will agree about the sociopath thing though. And again, if they just made it clear that it's creepy and not "quirky" or "funny", I'd probably be more forgiving about it. It's the vibe that's it's just totally acceptable, cool, and what "awesome straight dudes know/do" that bugs me. If it was presented as a flaw and treated like one instead of supposed to be something that makes the reader like/respect/bond with the MC more, that would be fine. I've literally never seen that be the case though. And no worries! I enjoy your thoughts! I actually like when people comment back and make me think. It's good for the brain and perceptions.
