Greater and Lesser Conflict in the Land

Discussion in 'Debates & Discussions' started by Captain BlackJack, Sep 24, 2020.

  1. Belgared

    Belgared Level 7 (Cutpurse) Citizen

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    We know that there are people being sacrificed in Yves. Is the king possibly involved with these sacrifices considering he allowed the draconian laws that were passed? Or was it nobility that reside in the kingdom?
     
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  2. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

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    I think the King has some undue influences pressuring him into things. For one the Count. Randy had even made a comment about it. It’s been my thinking that the basilisks alliances puppet master has a fat finger in the kingdom of Yves as well. That finger is possibly pushing buttons trying to unbalance the Land in addition to the Basilisks Alliance.
     
  3. Dragon

    Dragon Level 17 (Theurgist) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Possibly nobles, likely not the king as I don't see what his motive would be for dealing with an exile.

    Another possibility is wealthy commoners, perhaps merchants as they could easily acquire any number of nonhumans without raising suspicion.
     
  4. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Agreed, if he hasn't bothered to unlock his Powers the exile has nothing to really offer him. He doesn't want more power (magical) nor does he seem the bookish type (partying and shit all the time) so forbidden knowledge is out. The king seems like the perfect putz to be in charge while another or a "power behind the throne" takes care of ruling and there by amasses power.
     
  5. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

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    Why would you think the King is dealing with an Exile?

    Randy speaks of the king being influenced by people like the Count. My money is on the Count dealing with an Exiles second or even his third.

    If an Exile is pulling all the strings with the Alliance and pushing buttons in the Kings court. I would imagine he has one person he communes with and that character would have subjects working within each branch of the Basilisk Alliance.
     
  6. Belgared

    Belgared Level 7 (Cutpurse) Citizen

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    So are you saying the king is a person who just wants to live a hedonistic lifestyle? So he just doesn't care what is happening in his kingdom.
     
  7. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    It's hinted at by Randy that that is basically the case. When Richter asked why the king after years of being the Master had only unlocked 1 Power, Randy answers "Decadence".
     
  8. Dragon

    Dragon Level 17 (Theurgist) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Randy isn't really an impartial witness here. Decadence likely is part of it, but that doesn't explain the kings prejudice against nonhumans even within his own family. The king has surrounded himself with conservative and anti-nonhuman advisors something Randy found foolish, but that doesn't mean the Yvesian king isn't fully aware of what he is doing and where the kingdom is headed under his leadership.

    I think there is a good chance he means to follow in his ancestors footsteps and develop the kingdom through expansion rather than risking his own life to develop the pop supporting the capital. Most of the neighboring states are inhabited primarily (solely) by nonhumans, so dehumanizing them, convincing the human citizens of the kingdom that nonhumans are lesser beings, well that makes a lot of sense if your longterm goal is to conquer their lands.


    Now personally I would focus on the golden sands region first in order to get the coastal regions and extend the kingdoms coastline. Despite said area being low-value desert for the most part, it does grant access to some natural harbors that can be developed. Of course Yves isn't a naval power so its likely that simply wouldn't occur to the king. It would also protect the kingdom against invasions from the south.

    My second goal would be to conquer what remains of the forest of Nadria. This would bring in natural resources such as mines, farmlands, dungeons(ruins), and POP's, in addition to millions of nonhumans for the markets. It would also secure the kingdoms eastern border.

    Rione wouldn't be on my plan for conquest, because its pretty much impossible to take it at the moment. There is only one major pass leading through the mountains - at least that's my impression - and the serrated mountain dwarves would almost certainly ally with Rione if the alternative is being surrounded by an anti-nonhuman kingdom on all sides.

    As for the lands west of Yves, well we don't know what's out there. Could be ripe for conquest.
     
  9. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Fair, but one who wants more power and land and resources etc, is generally one who would go through the steps to gain easy power as well. More powers unlocked increases the ambient mana of the domain. Increasing the power of the monsters who live there and the thus the levels of your armies and such
     
  10. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

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    Here we go again!!!!

    Your biased hate shows.

    Are we all supposed to believe that the conservative mind set is synonymous with racism and hate?

    Last I looked conservative meant

    1. financially conservative lends itself to one that doesn’t squander money

    2. Politically conservative one that is slow to change

    3 One could be a conservative that believes in the conservation of wildlife and nature.

    In America conservatives not only believe in the preservation of our constitution but the preservation of our wildlife through national parks.

    I know many people want to change these definitions to mean political racism or party of hate. Like one famous progressive said it just matters what you definition of is, is. Progressives have also tried to change the meaning of, of to from. Lots of people don’t understand the importance of this nor do they understand the importance of our government being a Republic not a Democracy. Yet the Progressives advocate for us having a democracy and use the term in regularity referring to our government.

    Terms and words matter.

    If the King had any conservatives advising him would they have in acted such radical changes to the laws and rights of people? Rapid change of law and redefining law is a progressive trait that institutes change from the old way to the new.

    Would it not be more accurate to say that progressives in Yves have been pushing the new King to change the laws?

    Even better yet should it not be said that the new King has been influenced by evil and racist people?

    Rione should make a good ally especially against its Neighbor Yves.
     
  11. Dragon

    Dragon Level 17 (Theurgist) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    The easy power you speak off comes with a leash, we saw that with the Lich. Its also an open question how much power the exile could really grant the kingdom before it becomes obvious that they have an exile backer. At which point the people will definitely revolt, its like the ruler of a country in our world making a pact with the devil.

    The kingdom of Yves has the Dungeon(s), a massive kingdom to control with all the monsters that crop up here and there as well as old ruins. They have plenty of opportunity to train without the need to develop any one of their pop's, and the benefits for the domain are largely in place regardless of what the king does, its the personal benefits to the Master that have to be unlocked each time (also for reference, there's been talk of the highest level awakened being the fifth or fourth, so the king would have to go through about 20 pop quests before he can start breaking new ground and build up his domain, a daunting task. Even Randy's father failed to level the pop, and he traveled the Labyrinth for months at a time). To leave a lasting legacy behind it would be reasonable to look for easier ways.
     
  12. Dragon

    Dragon Level 17 (Theurgist) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Insults are for toddlers regardless of their political religion so i'm not gonna reply to those, though I will say its a strike below the belt. Regardless, moving on to your arguments.


    I myself have speculated whether the kings advisors are best described as progressive or conservative. If the kings advisors wish to return to an earlier era where the kingdom was not only expansionist - the early kings at least were conquerors, hence the Yvesian specialisation - but held deeply racist views about the place of nonhumans in their society would they be conservatives? If on the other hand they are newly risen men of ambition who believe in progress at any cost and despise all things not human as inferior are they progressives?

    Historically most west european countries got rid of slavery at home before the colonial age had really gotten started if not earlier (serfs were at least a halfstep higher in the social hierarchy as they had some actual rights), but it was reestablished in the colonies by entrepreneurs, traders and explorers as well as various nobles and even hypocritical kings. Were they progressives or conservatives?


    I don't see how Rione could invade Yves any easier than Yves could invade them, it comes down to there being only one pass across the Serratted mountains allowing travel between the kingdoms, which can easily be cut off with a small army and a fortress. Most likely both kingdoms pour significant resources into defending their end of the pass against invasion.
     
  13. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    The power I was referencing was the PoP powers there. My bad for not clarifying. I'm of a mind the exile holds nothing he wants because he doesn't even go for power that he could gain easily with his established kingdom
     
  14. Dragon

    Dragon Level 17 (Theurgist) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Many politicans (of any stripe) are fine with sending thousands to die for their glory, but would blanch at the idea of taking the field themselves if it meant risking injury and death.
     
  15. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

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    Now now Drag, to be fair you must admit you have shared many political rants with us. I haven’t said you are totally wrong nor have I said that you were biased until now.

    I’m sorry if I have given offense. That was not the intent. I do agree with you about toddlers casting insults at individuals or groups. Although I really don’t understand why people mix politics and religion. Are they actually trying to make their religion a government?
     
  16. Dragon

    Dragon Level 17 (Theurgist) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Well you pissed me of with the hate thing. I've never hated anyone in my life, at worst I've been resentful of certain bullies when I was younger. I've been angry plenty of times though, furious even, I have plenty of temper when it strikes me as I showed above. :)

    Not sure I've gone off on rants though, more that I get caught up in a line of thought and just keep going and going and going and going....
     
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  17. Dragon

    Dragon Level 17 (Theurgist) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I was not talking about actual religions, but I agree with you XD

    To me the way some people speak about liberalism, socialism, capitalism, etc. lifts these ideas to the point where they might as well be religions. To me they are no more than frameworks, a way to understand, to create new ideas, not dictate what ideas should and shouldn't be used. Socialism for example is much maligned in the US, yet the socialized education system for primary and secondary schooling is embraced in every successful society on earth including the US. Paying for children's education over the taxes is no different from paying for any other social program over the taxes, but few politicians would seriously advocate getting rid of public education. Its just too good of an idea. Similarly the free market is embraced in every successful country regardless of ideology because it works.
     
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  18. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

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    Hey I can keep up a discussion!

    So are you saying you haven’t written anything about foreign politics, specific parties, or certain politicians of said foreign countries?

    We are in very turbulent times. I’m sorry it offended you but you did use a term including a very large group of people and calling them all racist.
     
  19. Dragon

    Dragon Level 17 (Theurgist) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    This is the only mention of conservatives I could find in the post you referred to. I call the king's advisors conservative and anti-nonhuman. I don't see how that implies all conservatives in the kingdom are anti-nonhuman, let alone that all conservatives everywhere are.
     
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