Growing metal nodes.

Discussion in 'Debates & Discussions' started by Dragon, Jun 16, 2020.

  1. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    As we now know the land is Old. Very, very old. In fact certain types of lesser Dungeons, ancient Dungeons, are more than a million years old. Thats probably before the last apocalypse, but I wouldn't be surprised if the land turned out to be tens if not hundreds of millions of years old.

    Yet after all that time there are unexplored deposits on the surface and mines filled with metal, even on the first levels. That's a glaring issue, it simply does not make sense. I think its too fundamental for Aleron to have missed. Which leads me to theorize that new deposits are grown by the powers (not a major stretch given that the Dungeon can do) occasionally, using the flow of power to resculpt the land. A less obvious mechanic is the Mine. We have the following quote:

    Not only is the Mine referred to in upper case (always significant in the land), we also know that mana is somehow required to support ores within the Mine.

    This can mean one of two things. Either a certain level of mana is required for the ore to exist at all or there is something special about the mine.


    Now as I said in the beginning, Ore should be running low, but it isn't. Natural deposits spawn from time to time and there are of course the Dungeons, which means they will never run out entirely. I think there is an additional mechanic for the Mines, they regrow metal over time, hence the requirement for a certain level of ambient mana.


    Old version, before I was reminded the Mine can in fact contain moonstone.
    As we now know the land is Old. Very, very old. In fact certain types of lesser Dungeons, ancient Dungeons, are more than a million years old. Thats probably before the last apocalypse, but I wouldn't be surprised if the land turned out to be tens if not hundreds of millions of years old.

    Yet after all that time there are unexplored deposits on the surface and mines filled with metal, even on the first levels. That's a glaring issue, it simply does not make sense. I think its too fundamental for Aleron to have missed. Which leads me to theorize that new deposits are grown by the powers (not a major stretch given that the Dungeon can do) occasionally, using the flow of power to resculpt the land. A less obvious mechanic is the Mine. We have the following quote:

    Not only is the Mine referred to in upper case (always significant in the land), we also know that mana is somehow required to support ores within the Mine.

    This can mean one of two things. Either a certain level of mana is required for the ore to exist at all or there is something special about the mine.

    Now in book 4 we have the following happen

    Which means moonstone can exist within Richter's domain, but higher levels are required for it to be supported in the Mine. Why might that be?

    Now as I said in the beginning, Ore should be running low, but it isn't. Natural deposits spawn from time to time and there are of course the Dungeons, which means they will never run out entirely. I think there is an additional mechanic for the Mines, they regrow metal over time, hence the requirement for a certain level of ambient mana. The moonstone deposit can exist because its a finite amount of moonstone, the moonstone nodes in the Mine cannot, they require a constant flow of mana to grow moonstone that the territory simply cannot provide.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
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  2. Waterhobit

    Waterhobit Level 10 (Filcher) Citizen

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    I think this makes sense.

    There are a few things that have puzzled me about the MV Mine, that this theory resolves. Why would any metal still exist in a mine just outside of a PoP. Perhaps if the deposit was never discovered, but then there wouldn't be a mine. Why would a mine have multiple existing levels, but none of the metal had been removed from the first levels. Under normal circumstances, as a miner discovers metal, it would be removed, and one would not generally continue digging mine shafts without removing the ore.
     
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  3. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    ?? He definitely converted part of the iron mine into moonstone during his spending spree. He then converted that into darkstone for later. Which is an oddity in and of itself with darkstone being a level two metal, but not needing a high mana requirement to be in the mine. While Duranium, Vibranium, Elementum, Thorium, Titan Steel, Mithril or Adamantium aren't level two metals apparently just magically intensive. Also Thorium? We making nuclear reactors in the land Richter, or just big fans of bone cancer in a village that was having trouble washing its hands regularly?
     
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  4. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Damm you are right. My mind slipped entirely. Ill have to make a rewrite of those parts.
     
  5. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Probably not the earth version of thorium.

    We know darkstone exist inside certain moonstone deposits. So it might just slip under the bar, being one of the weaker tier 2 metals. Or Duranium, Vibranium, Elememtum, Titan steel and Adamantium are beyond tier 2. These are mostly unheard of metals, with the exception of the Titan steel in Richter's safe and the small pile of elementum bars, so it would make sense. Richter simply did not know what metals to ask for.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  6. Andrew Lynas

    Andrew Lynas Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Dark Stone could likely be because of the Dark Mana Lay Line increasing the Dark Mana even further in the area then would be normally found. Similarly Necronium might be found near the Kendirs Undead Raising Building if there was any Metal Ore in the ground because of the higher Death Mana around it?
     
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  7. Tropith

    Tropith Level 6 (Footpad) Exiles Citizen

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    That seems quite plausible. But now we need a metal sink or the whole Land will be turned into metal.
     
  8. Andrew Lynas

    Andrew Lynas Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Rusties, Rust Monsters! If a larger enough Metal deposits form they are attracted to them.
     
  9. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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  10. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Well, i'd imagine that the powers that maintain everything else take care of broken weaponry when its rusted down sufficiently. Might be a gradual process where material is slowly seeped away. I honestly don't think it matters, just put a cap on how much metal there can be per node in the mine. No matter how much mana comes, no further growth happens.

    What happens to broken weaponry and gear in the land anyway? Can it be reforged or is only whole fragments like the handle that are reusable?
     
  11. Waterhobit

    Waterhobit Level 10 (Filcher) Citizen

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    I agree that it really isn't a problem. Metal items and gear will always continue to be lost to time, corrosion, or other destructive forces. I don't think that the entire land is constantly "growing" metal. It would primarily be within existing mines, and with a cap of some kind, although the moonstone lump they found seems to suggest that metal deposits can form outside of the mine as well, although less sparsely.

    Perhaps the Land has some sort of metalurgic cycle where new metal can only be "grown" at the same rate that it is lost throughout the land. This could also help explain why the most durable metals are also the rarest.
     
  12. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    The most durable and powerful metals are likely also the most expensive in terms of mana to grow, and even with sufficient mana, lesser metals could grow faster due to the overabundance of mana available. That would explain the disparity in availability.

    A capped amount in existence seems too arbitrary. Also, what happens if someone imports metal from another world or the Labyrinth?
     
  13. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    On a related note

    The kingdom apparently has multiple mines that produces moonstone and a metal named Ebony. Weird way of saying that its mined there, but I assume that's what they mean. Yves just got even more powerful.
     
  14. Andrew Lynas

    Andrew Lynas Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Might want to ask the Traders to try and get hold of some Higher Tier Metals that the Mist Village Mine isn't going to have and then feed them to the Dungeon so that they can be Mined there. Also Sacrifice a sample of the New Metals from the Mine to the Dungeon as well.
    Possibly the same for useful Gems for Enchanting and Crafting, maybe other Materials in time as well.
     
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  15. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    This is the way to go. Ebony can be bought for around 100 gold per bar. Other metals not available through Yves are likely even more expensive, but nonetheless they should at least try to get it.

    It might also be worth it to shakedown the kindir so to speak. Have some of the traders set up stands with pictures of pretty, flashy things that can be crafted in return for info or the right items.
     
  16. PokemonThug

    PokemonThug Level 13 (Assassin) Roleplaying Exiles Citizen

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    Id go for speed 100 % of the way, except 10% of troops for very heavy weapon/armour and , 20% for medium equipment.
    Pretty much have like a base army of Spartans, with specialized squads of specific troops: special forces, heavy infantry, mounter infantry, snipers etc..

    also we can't really work higher lvl metals yet, for now I'd simply suggest improving our skills.
     
  17. Hastur

    Hastur Level 9 (Burgler) Exiles Citizen

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    Why not just have the Kindir steal the metal? Also do not forget the difference between a bar and ore. A bar creates a loot drop possibility for another bar...it takes ore to become a possible resource to be mined. It's why Richter used SP for Darkstone.
     
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  18. Hastur

    Hastur Level 9 (Burgler) Exiles Citizen

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    Poke is right. Unless the Dwarves come to help with the Bugbears it is going to be a while before the better metals can be worked. Krom is not even an adept yet. With that said many of us already speculated that somehow their will be some deal with the Dwarves involving Rannok Din or that Richter can manage to recruit a master smith by offering the opportunity to learn enchants from the FOH.
     
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  19. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Kindir do not steal deliberately. Not if they are anything like the kender. Instead they are extremely curious combined with being far more innocent in their mentality than other races. They would not mind you going into their home to borrow something, so why would you mind them borrowing something from you? If you need it back off course the kindir will give it to you without a second thought, having never conceived of the notion that they were doing anything wrong. The original kender were cursed to be that way by chaos.

    Asking the kindir to steal is likely to offend them deeply, kindir hate thieves ;)

    Asking the kindir to go there to look around for some ore no one needs would be but a question away. But stealing ore would be very dangerous. Its sure to be well guarded. An ebony bar is between 150-225 gold if I remember the math right (15 gold for a moonstone bar, 10-15 times that for an ebony bar), the ore might be a little cheaper but still worth hiring a small army to guard the mine.
     
  20. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    The dwarves will come. Aleron has put quite a few pieces on the board that are usually connected with them. The red stones (I believe that is the clan they sent their emisaries to) are Krom's kin, and dwarves are big on two things: Kin and gold. Then there are the slayer title, the focus in the last book on Richter stealing the granite breaker art of the firetip mountain dwarves, the axe and the fact that they are fighting greenskins.

    True master smiths have bigger things to worry about and most are likely tied to chiefs that aren't keen on them leaving. Richter should go for the half masters, those who have reached the Master tier as smiths but lack either the affinity for enchanting or the required number of enchantments. Richter can help them overcome either handicap as long as they swear fealty. Even with zero affinity, a dwarf could be an enchanter 12.5 years later, which is practically no time at all when the norm is decades of service for a single enchantment.

    He should also try to steal a few adepts suffering from similar troubles.
     
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