Military analysis of Last Gods Eye Battle

Discussion in 'Not The Land' started by PokemonThug, Dec 6, 2020.

  1. PokemonThug

    PokemonThug Level 17 (Theurgist) Roleplaying Exiles Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    Armies:

    Attacking:
    Swaroth - Tier 0 Godling
    1 Ogre Champion
    +-14 Ogers

    Defending:
    Zero- Tier whocares godling
    1 Higher special unit Archer.
    3 Clerics/Champions
    128 Cat dudes

    So the attack happens with ~+-20 minutes warning, Zero summons special soul Archer and pimps him to lvl 2. Archer says I'll go organize the troops.. At this point it might have been a good idea to:

    Now think what Mr. Archer could have done here?? after you drink a cup of tea and brain for 5 min, otherwise I will go and find you and inflict some pain if you don't ;DD
    Yes multiple ideas please
    Archer when the enemy arrived seemed bored leaning to one side near Zero.. seems like he had time to do more.. Archer simply arranged the cats in two lines with orders to kill and not run.. did he need 20 minutes for that? and placed the eaglebear cubs.. not much it seems has been done. Maybe he has spend all the time thinking of the plan to attack the god from behind.. not sure here. does not seem likely

    1. Archer could have sacrificed two of our own cat dudes to make more arrows! We lost 109, most deaths were absolutely useless.I think this is a great idea.
    What Zero fell could have done? Yes pzl think and write down you thoughts!

    • Richter should have made Rig monitor the battlefield and inform him when the Oger Champion attacked. also Rig Shod have been used as a distraction to the Ogers. for kiting or whatever.
    • Summoning of the Spirit Beast, this came to my mind even before reading of the fight. Beast as I remember lasts for 7 minutes.. and that is a ton of time. Not sure why it was summoned when everyone was already dead!? Should have been summoned as an answer to the champion Oger.. now we have 3 Dead Clerics and +80 more dead cat dudes. Use spirit beast when Ogers engage? Or perhaps right before the stun so that the beast could kill a few of them easier.
    • Not sure about when The Clerics attacked the stunned beasts.. did they even attack? If they would have attacked the stunned Ogers they would have one shot killed at least 3 Ogers + 2 more dead from the Cat Dudes.. +5 dead From Archer.. So there are 5 Ogers scratched up Ogers left.. Also the they should have consumed Oger souls immediately right there and then.. not like 10 minutes later joining the fight when the peasants were slaughtered..
    • Zero Could have 4 Clerics.. he forgot to make a 4th one.. why dude why..
    • Prob archer did not know about the Spirit Beast possibility..
    • Maybe the Cat dudes needed to find some stones to crush skulls instead vs stabing Ogers with pointy sticks?
    Considering we have 4th Cleric. 2 more bone arrows form Cat dudes. Spirit beast Summoned just before the stunning of Ogers.. And all clerics attacking the stunned beasts with Imbued weapons when they fall from stun.. I think we would kill like 9 Ogers.. so 4 are left(2 of whom are a god and champion standing on the Ridge..)..
    This leaves the risk Of enemy God running away.. so probably drawing them in a bit would seem like a good idea.. which could be done with Zero's aggro skill.?

    It seems like more could have been done.. Still the end result is beneficial.
    The only thing lost is few level 1 dudes.. like 109 of them and 3 Clerics.. so for 23k FT's we can replace the Clerics.. and for ~50k FT's 109 cat dudes? not a big loss considering we killed all of them and Eaten some of the Godling lol
     
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  2. Waterhobit

    Waterhobit Level 12 (Rogue) Citizen

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    Do we know how many Faith Points it takes to summon common and uncommon souls? I don't doubt it is well within his ability with his current Faith Points. And do we know what is required to reproduce cleric tokens?
     
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  3. TWW101

    TWW101 Level 8 (Thug) Exiles Citizen

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    It costs 50 divine points to crate a acolyte token. That is 50 consumed common souls (uncommon was worth 4 points) or 50 times 10 faith points cultivated for at least 2 hours and he said he fails cultivating more than 50% of the time at the start. All in faith at 50% is it is around 1000 faith and a little more than 8 1/3 days of doing nothing but cultivating.
    He also needs divine points to rank up.
    I am not sure exactly how many divine points he has right now, but he has done some soul consumption and some cultivation and he got a 50 point bonus when he created his relic.

    It seemed like the author just wanted to get most of the troops killed in the battle.

    It didn't seem like Remy or the clerics attacked while the enemy was stunned. It made it sound like they ran after 4 ogres that didn't get stunned, but somehow they so out of position they couldn't get there before the unstunned ogres started crushing people. I also thought if Remy was going to empower his attack and 1 shot things, he should done it before the ogres massacred all his troops.
    If his troops were a little better, it seemed like Remy could have just kited everyone with enrage aura (but the god) and his troops could pick the rest off one at a time.
    When the other acolyte used his power, it seems like the normal troops should have just used their higher agility to not die rather than running in and being slaughtered.
    Counterbalancing this, maybe I am wrong, but the only thing I remember the other god doing was casting one spell the entire battle. He probably should have killed a lot more of Remy's troops.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2020
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  4. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    The loss of 80+ people costs Remy at least 1200 faithpoints per tenthday. Remy wasn't busy capturing the souls of the ogres but he got some. With 4 points a pop that's a max of 60 points if there were 15 ogres, but Remy probably got less than 20 faithpoints. He does get 500 fp for that cleric getting slain, but he only has 1 free cleric creation token left. If he wants to promote two new clerics he will need to pay for it in faithpoints. I imagine that costs a bit more than what you get out when you kill them.

    Result of the battle
    Loss of 1200 faithpoint's worth of passive income every tenth day. Increased by 10% for level 0 temple, so 1320 points lost.

    +60 points for killed ogres
    +500 points for killed cleric
    - xxxx points for lost clerics
    +xxxx points for slain god

    confirmed results for now
    + 560 points

    by tomorrow
    560 - 1320 = -760


    The big gain here is hopefully the reward for killing another god, the last blood of an earth god and getting the ogre bloodline (maybe he can summon ogres now? Good frontline fighters), cause he got hurt in faithpoints.
     
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  5. S'ahelas

    S'ahelas Level 9 (Burgler) Exiles Citizen

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    I think faith points will end up being a dime a dozen. They will only be valuable in the short term during the cornucopia stage. Perhaps higher level souls will cost many faith points (hundreds of thousands, millions?) But level zero common souls may actually be as cheap as arrows. So the loss from the battle feels heavy: we lost most of the army, two of the leaders, and the survivors are traumatized. But isn't really. In fact the true cost was in what the Lords of Chaos payed to sponsor the Ogre god, a price possibly measured in billions of souls, among other priceless things.

    Thus the god's blood, the god's soul, and the bloodline must be have enormous wealth, giving Remy a key strategic advantage. The battle may also serve as a catalyst of Remy to conquer the world. It is the sixth of seven gifts, and one without any hope of appraisal until we know more, i.e, until later on in the story.

    In terms of the battle, I don't think standing in the open field was the best strategy. Remy had essentially six fighters (counting the momma bird spirit) and the equivalent of a bunch of children against 15 orgs and a god. So in reality Remmy was outnumbered, and when you are fighting a numerically superior force, you don't fight in the open, you limit you exposure to attackers. Have them come at you in a choke point and fend them off a few at a time with your six fighters, and hope each of your guys is worth two of the other others. But, this allows the god to escape when seeing the battle is going poorly, and if the whole point was to slay the god, then the battle plan was a success, all things considered.
     
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  6. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Why would faith points be a dime a dozen? Thus far they have been pretty difficult to get.

    I think even common souls will be pricey to recruit in order to prevent massive population growth, and greater souls can't be bought with faith points alone. Instead they will need some of those Merchant great spirit points if they want a Merchant's soul, etc.

    A guess would be

    common soul: Average recruimentcost of 100 faith points. (max 1000 souls for 100.000 faith points). Would allow a population increase of 15% per tenthday if all faith points gained are reinvested for devotion rank 3 (15 points per tenthday).
    Uncommon soul: Average recruitmentcost of 250 faith points.
    Limited soul: Average recruitmentcost of 1000 faith points.
     
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  7. Mister Bill

    Mister Bill Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    No way do you want the ogres to be able to bring their smaller numbers to greater effect. Being able to surround them in the open and attack all at once was more effective even if it brought their numbers way down. Being in a small area means only a couple can attack at a time and very few could withstand the attack of a single ogre, never mind 14.
     
  8. PokemonThug

    PokemonThug Level 17 (Theurgist) Roleplaying Exiles Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    Pretty sure we could have had 12 chosen cat dudes to simple do on thing when Ogers went down its to rub mud into their eyes... more of a distraction.. actually why did all the cat dudes not go for the eyes and groin in the first place..
    Pretty sure having a bunch of stones and simply using them to crush skulls would have worked better than spears.. if you can even call them that.
     
  9. Mister Bill

    Mister Bill Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Ogres are way taller than the cat people, for one. And one moment of not paying attention means a mortal wound for a cat guy.
     
  10. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    They likely did go for the eyes and the groins as well as other weakpoints which is the reason the ogres eventually went down. Ogres are giant creatures with massive health pools, great strength and greater stupidity. The panthers got a lot of strikes in while they were on the ground, but not enough to finish them outright. The ogres also had several levels on the average panther.

    That said, going for the eyes off a giant creature several feet higher than you is difficult to say the least. Groin and stomach are likely the extent of what the panthers can reach. I think it was said somewhere the average panther is around 5 feet. The average ogre is 9-10 feet tall.
     
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  11. Mister Bill

    Mister Bill Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I had a question. Why couldn’t Zero Fell have turned on his title and gotten all of the enemies to follow him? Then he could kite them. While he does that his super archer picks off the enemy god and acolyte and then the rest of the baddies.
     
  12. Mister Bill

    Mister Bill Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Wait, could he have made the archer dude his 4th acolyte? That would have been OP, I think.
     
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  13. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Yes he could make the man an acolyte. But it would have been a bad use given the mans proclivity towards archery. Affinity isn't an obvious mechanic on Telos, but that doesn't mean it isn't a factor. I would put him in charge of the ranged forces.

    Kiting dozens of ogres singlehandedly? He barely managed to fend off a couple at once. Plus, while they might be huge creatures that have a hard time stopping, i'm not so sure they couldn't outrun a pantherkin in a race given their much longer legs.
     
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  14. Mister Bill

    Mister Bill Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Ah, right. Good point about the acolyte bit. He did seem to choose the first three based solely on combat ability, though.
    As for kiting that’s why you try to get them to go in circles. Or maybe through a gauntlet of the kitties. I dunno. Super risky for him, though, for sure.
     
  15. Mister Bill

    Mister Bill Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I just read part of God’s Eye and he says he couldn’t outrun them all in the meadow because they’re twice as tall as he is. I guess his agility isn’t high enough to stay past them all.
     
  16. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Not in a race at least though he is no doubt far more agile and speedy for a creature of his size. Think of them as a group of angry bulls. Once they get moving they have a harder time stopping and maneuvering, but in terms of running speed they can get far faster than a human. Now adjust the mental picture of the bulls to giant sapient creatures that can coordinate their efforts, as well as weapons they can strike with against an agile foe trying to jump out of the way. Our hero might be able to avoid 3 or 4 ogres, but nearly two dozen for an extended period seems like a stretch.
     
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  17. Gurston

    Gurston Level 9 (Burgler) Exiles Citizen

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    I thought he had unlocked the research to give the warrior class but didnt seem to give that to any of his troops, he could have made some and promoted them to level 2 with faith points. did he need to build something to grant the class?
     
  18. PokemonThug

    PokemonThug Level 17 (Theurgist) Roleplaying Exiles Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    And when the Ogre is stunned and on the ground crawling around after sonic attack by baby eagle bears.. his height is at most 0.75 foot of the ground. hoho
    were going after stunned ones only pumpkin;D
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
  19. PokemonThug

    PokemonThug Level 17 (Theurgist) Roleplaying Exiles Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    a bit too slow for kiting so many.. still there could have been a big hole in the ground and a tiny tree through it.. so ogres would have fallen into the pit. nice thinking Bill.
     
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  20. PokemonThug

    PokemonThug Level 17 (Theurgist) Roleplaying Exiles Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    I've been thinking and the way to do battle is simple:
    Spears, shields, slings/arrows&bows if we have time.

    Its super easy to make stone tipped weapons, well more or less. like up to 1h.
    And such a spear is super great for tree hunting 1:17 :


    I'd have at least 3 spears: like Roman legions, after spears penetrate the skin their end lands on the ground and if ur running forward u'll run through the spear completely and impale yourself.
    Slings are super easy to make, though require great skill. Should be used before spear throwing range.A few volleys. Its just some leaves tied together lol and few stones
    Bows and arrows is a lot more work but still they could have easily made at least some weapons..It feels like they have just traveled and gathered and had some sticks...wtf??

    Also the wall was like what 7 feet? What does it protect you from?! Hobbits?! hahahahaha

    Srsly, eagle bears, spiders, cat ppl, Ogre is 9-11 feet lol all of them can easily climb/destroy this fence.
    Romans had real walls: a pit, raised earth & stone and 12 feet spiked wall filled with earth and a parapet on top and towers. This is like a 15 feet wall.
    In Talos world we need at least 20 feet walls not Hobbit fences to protect us from midgets..
     
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