Money - rambling thoughts

Discussion in 'Debates & Discussions' started by Dragon, Sep 10, 2020.

  1. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

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    The Kinder might or might not be vassals. Anyone sworn to Flint would also now owe allegiance to Ricther by their oaths. All the unsworn people of the Kinder settlement would be denizens. Even if they swore oaths they would still only become vassals. Many of us don’t realize that citizenship isn’t always granted because today most people are born citizens in the country which they live.

    In the Roman Empire people born in Italy were not necessarily citizens either. Many people had to earn their citizenship by serving for a term of military service. I know the US, France, and I believe Britain still allow for this type of citizenship. I’m not familiar with Denmark or other countries.
     
  2. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Given Aleron and the kind of things we've seen from him, I don't think he'll be the one to split the finer hairs of citizenship vs vassalship.
     
  3. Waterhobit

    Waterhobit Level 10 (Filcher) Citizen

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    Until now, I was of the opinion that Richter should limit the length of direct employment of any new villagers in an attempt to shift to a purely free market economy at the end of the initial year. But I really like your economic model for the MV. Shifting villagers to self-employment and collectives at the end of their year, and requiring all new villagers to swear fealty and accept an initial 1-year employment contract with Richter.

    I also think you are spot on regarding the importance of identifying useful affinities and encouraging villagers to pursue those affinities. I am hoping that Mama, or someone with her caravan, will have the ability to identify affinities. The desire to help every villager reach and even exceed the limits of their affinities is one of the greatest strengths of the MV. Identifying useful skills in the population will be a key to this growth.
     
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  4. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

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    Who knows since he has already acknowledge denizens living in his lands. That acknowledgment alone sets a difference in denizens and citizens for which I am glad. From that I think Aleron is intelligent enough to recognize the difference between vassals and citizens. Although Ricther has asked everyone to take an oath of Fealty that doesn’t they will all be enfeoffed either. I think that those who have taken his oath becoming vassals would in turn would gain citizenship for their children born in the villiage. Unsworn people might receive citizenship but they might remain denizens as well. I suppose Aleron could leave out citizenship completely using the term denizens instead of serfs or peasants. Seeing how both terms are not seen in a good light that is possible. In my mind it’s hard to have denizens without having citizens. To me it’s a lot like having a moon but no sun.
     
  5. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    You don't think he just opened a thesaurus so as not to sound like a broken record using the same word over and over?
     
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  6. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Scandinavian populations have always been low. Lots of land, but not that much good farmland to sustain the massive populations further south. Outside of Denmark and skåne at least, which is one reason the smallest of the three scandinavian nations were so dominant historically. That and off course we had the belt toll. The amount of money siphoned off for simple passage over the centuries is obscene and helped finance the danish navy.

    That said, even danish landbound (a system that only existed for a century or so) were citizens under the law, at least to the extent that concept existed. Partially due to the lower populations, partially because scandinavians have a different culture than west, east and south europeans.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2020
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  7. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

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    He very well could had but even if he did don’t you think he would have read the definition? I don’t think he just flipped through and said here I’ll use this without understanding its connotation.

    Remember words have meaning in the land.
     
  8. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I think that, like Richter, he would have thought the nuance pedantic and unimportant, given that the layman would understand them as similes and not as profoundly different adjectives.

    If he was pumping these out once every 3-5 years, then I would consider that he pays attention to every single word, their definitions, and they're arrangement in relation to one another. As we have seen multiple revisions to every single book he has released, after they have been purchased, as well as focusing on multiple projects and haphazard release schedules, I find it to be a particularly unlikely occurrence.
     
  9. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

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    Drag my friend, once again you stagger me with a marvelous since of pride in your nation and it’s history. You must be a nationalist!

    Out of curiosity when the Vikings took lands and held them did those indigenous peoples receive full citizenship from their Viking overlords?
    So what must one do to become a danish citizen? I think about half of us in the states might want to move.
     
  10. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I simply know my history, having studied it at university for a year before deciding to go in another direction. I also have a background in finances and computer science. A misspent youth.

    One does not simply become a danish citizen, you would need to hold a job and show an abilty to feed yourself. Or be a refugee, though we are as a nation loath to receive more of those than we already do.

    Under the danelaw in britain? Good question, my answer will have to be that I do not know, certainly thralls were treated very poorly and the conquests were brutal. Of course so were the british counterattack and subsequent genocide against danes living within britain.

    I know norwegians were integrated into the kingdom of Denmark to the point where there wasn't really a nation of Norway to speak off, though it was later recreated. But they were scandinavians.

    Gennerally speaking the vikings were quite harsh on their enemies, and I imagine subjugated peoples went through all the normal warcrimes associated with being conquered by a medieval army. We were definitely not saints in the early medieval period. By the 11th century, after christianity took hold, thralldom had all but been stamped out. So to clarify, for the last 900 years there have been one period in which a limited form of land binding of farmers have taken place, targeting young men that might otherwise leave for the cities.
    There were also, much to our shame, a period in which we had slaves on the west indies.

    With Biden holding the lead with precisely 1 elector, and Trump saying he'll take it to the supreme court, i'd consider running as well.
     
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  11. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

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    It’s a sad situation here in the states. Biden lawyered up and Trump followed.

    I hate to say it but people often cry out loud here on social media and other sites. As if you were cursing them and speaking poorly to them. Then as soon as they hear something the don’t appreciate they get throaty and start foaming at the mouth. Then they spew insults as if it were okay. God forbid you capitalize anything to emphasize your point or even try to make a point.

    I find it funny and stupid. I shouldn’t admit 90% of what I write here is while I am driving or dealing with something else. Sometimes I capitalize stuf without knowing. Lots of people here have NO civility and act while they curse and talk down to people that they as if they are superior. The USA is in a major civil decline.

    Refugees, I fear will make an everlasting change in Europe and Scandinavia. That change not being for the best. Scandinavia for the most has been a settled and peace loving nation for sometime. Immigrants always influence their host nation. We should always consider that influence. Immigrants bring foreign ideas of law to host countries can be problematic for the citizens not interested in the pedaling of Sharia law. We all face turbulent times of our own device.

    The Vikings were an extremely smart people and great explorers. They learned from others during their travels and would have implemented what they had learned to the best of their abilities. I am positive they had many vassals of all types and conditions. They would have used and empowered all that would benefit them. The rest would remain at the bottom of the order.

    The institution of slavery has stained the world and should have shamed the entire human race.
     
  12. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Not that I care to talk politics but republicans are the ones trying to prevent legal votes from being counted in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan because people chose to vote by mail. That is after the supreme court, with a heavy 5-3 republican tilt, judged that it was legal for Pensylvania to spend until friday to count votes. An army of lawyers have been hired by both sides.
     
  13. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

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    Drag, what news sources do you get from the states?
     
  14. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Fox news, nbc, cnn, in addition to a couple danish news sources as well. All of them have their biases, some for and some against Trump.

    As I see it, the same claims are being made about vote fraud as were in 2016. When it came to actually substantiating those claims (essentially that the democratic party or at least a significant number of democrats had completely undermined the democratic system by deliberately inserting millions of fraudulent votes), no evidence of significant vote fraud could be found. That's despite a close to two-year long investigation by the Trump administrations Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity. Launched at a time when Republicans had a solid hold on congress, senate and presidency, meaning no democrat was able to impair the investigation.

    Currently Trump is saying votes that had not been counted on tuesday should be set aside, whether people voted in person or by mail. Legal votes cast by legal voters before or on election day should be set aside because the states are too slow to count them all or they arrived afterwards, legal in the states in question. Go read his actual words instead of trying to discredit whatever source of news you expected me to have read :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2020
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  15. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Anyway that's only my take.
     
  16. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

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  17. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    you set the last quote wrong :)

    I do love to opine. I'm getting a little defensive as many americans seem to think shouting louder/ insults means being right.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2020
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  18. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

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    I would like to beg everyone’s pardon for posting this for Drag. Since this was opened up in a public forum I think it only just to for this to be allowed.

    Former Philadelphia Judge of Elections Convicted of Conspiring to Violate Civil Rights and Bribery

    Former Congressman Charged with Ballot Stuffing, Bribery, and Obstruction

    Those are fairly recent but we have a VERY REAL problem and history of corrupt elections.
    Go back and read about Tammine Hall. Read about buying votes, denying votes, voter identity fraud, ballot stuffing, the dead voting, ballots being destroyed, illegal voting, This isn’t a made up conspiracy it has been happening for hundreds of years. We have also had problems with votes being thrown out by unbalanced election boards. That is one of the big reasons some are upset now. Several Republican observers were not allowed in to observe election. I am sure the same thing has happened in the past to Democrats as well. Like all crime we can’t prevent it all, but we could improve our laws regarding elections. You would think that all politicians would agree to do that but some refuse any improvements. They could also strengthen the terms of punishment and apply that to the fullest. If you that you might get life in prison without parole one might think twice about breaking a law.
     
  19. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

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    Sorry if setting that wrong gave offense.

    I Didn’t tried to discredit in news sources. I only asked you what your sources were.

    I hate to think you believe I have yelled or insulted you. Although there are plenty here that would. I know some seem to think a witty insult isn’t an insult at all. I often get tickled thinking about those guardians of the dodecahedron an all it’s secrets. It’s hard to believe so many of them still live.
     
  20. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I'll apologize as well as we really shouldn't be discussing politics here.

    That said, the question isn't whether vote fraud is happening (on both sides) its whether that vote fraud is significant enough to flip a state and whether that vote fraud can be proven. From what i'm hearing on fox news and their legal experts, they are not optimistic, as no evidence whatsoever apart from hearsay has been presented. Just now Andy Mccarthy talked about Trump committing a major political blunder by calling on the supreme court to get involved in pensylvania.
     




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