MV Strategy

Discussion in 'Debates & Discussions' started by PokemonThug, May 26, 2020.

  1. PokemonThug

    PokemonThug Level 13 (Assassin) Roleplaying Exiles Citizen

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    Lets talk long term/ longish term MV strategy, f.e. take a look at this post by Shougth.

    Strategy is long term plan, like where you would like to be in 20 years, and what long term plans and preparations do you have to do to get there, including dealing with any possible failures in the way, and preparing to counter them.
     
  2. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Right now, they need to grow their numbers. They already have a ton of resources, except maybe food, and just need time amd manpower to become a real power.

    1. Caravan hopefully has a bunch or professionals, ideally multiple high level researchers and a good amount of others with affinity and willingness to do research.

    2. Take over a kobold clan. They will hopefully have access to unique resources or at least can help the mining operation. Map the whole mine.

    3. Establish a real army with dedicated soldiers who train in combat in the barracks, dungeon, and clearing monsters from the land.

    4. Start putting more time amd mana into unlocking and using level 2 and 3 enchantments. He should upgrade his mana sharing ability with alma. Together they could crank out a new level 2 enchantment like every other day.

    5. After a month or so he will have an army comparable to the hearth tree in overall power due to semi decent skill and personal levels boosted by abnormally powerful gear, meidon sprites, higher than typical number of magi, and possibility of varied tactics due to all the different races.
     
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  3. S'ahelas

    S'ahelas Level 7 (Cutpurse) Exiles Citizen

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    A month is way too soon. For most people it takes years to become a professional anything, let alone a warrior. Heart Tree army has commando units, professionals, specialists and an organization structure. Even training sergeants will take a while, as these need to be strong fighters, experienced in battle, and trained in leadership. Currently the best ones were all killed in the Linch battle– we are left with Randy, Terrod, and Sion as the only leaders atm. Professional fighters will be some time after that, as everyone needs to get their skills up. Simon is only now finally able to become a professional, and he's done most of the shit Ritcher has. Most everyone else is 1-multiple years away. And what will take a less clear but still large amount of time is specialists like battle pixies or commandos. These will require a basic ability and skill level even to enter the programs, let alone complete them, assuming you have experienced leaders capable of running these training programs which the MV does not. We are looking at years away from matching the HT (which could I guess be made up for in numbers) let alone a powerful army like law.

    Dungeon cleaning, Barracks training, this is all good. Slow and steady progress. Not enough. How Ritcher will become a power in the world is not through a personal village army. The MV will more act as a way to gain secondary advantages, like Forge, Crafting Table, Cauldron, Research, etc. Its an item producing factory not a fighting force. Rather, Ritcher will gain an army through allies, and this is where the strategy comes to play. Unite the Koblads. Use Ragnok Den to become or appoint king of the dwarves. Ally with the Vampires, and work something out (vassalage maybe) with the orges. Trade and gather allies from the iles of glass and from all around the river lands, (maybe map quest will help?) We don't know enough about the neighboring civilizations to know really what direction to go in. But, while Ritcher can make miraculous progress, his village will not, at least not without big time gaps, or influx of powerful earthlings. Eventually, sure. There is foreshadowing to suggest the village will become celestial and ascend (what ever this means). But this is more end game stuff, when half the world is conquered and the foes become the demigods or exiles, long after the bugbears threat is ended.
     
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  4. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    5 seems more than optimistic. Probably looking at half a years before they can match the basic sprite army in quality (numbers depend entirely on population increases, so thats a seperate discussion), the HT seems like they are a pretty big deal, big enough to be noticeable by Yves and for the bugbears to identify them as one of the primary obstacles to their conquest. The sprites are also a successfull pop in a monsterinfected region, meaning their forces have fought a lot.

    A smaller force at the level of the sprite army might be doable, though i'd be pursuing a different strategy instead of trying to do what the sprites already do really well. A mixed army where humans and dwarves take on the opponents in melee combat while weaker races (in terms of average constitution, strength and size) ravage their foes from a distance with ranged weapons and magic seems like it should work pretty well, both for the village and for operations alongside the HT army. The tank wall may be their best strategy for taking the goblins and bugbears on in a melee.
     
  5. Cire122

    Cire122 Level 9 (Burgler) Exiles Citizen

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    He desperately needs to work on his military strength (personal, MV forces, allies, vassals) to defend what he has and will have. Since this can also be on a 20 year focus, once he gets a larger standing force that is strong enough to easily grind the first level or first few levels of the dungeon, he needs to set up a training program to get all subjects that have pledged fealty to a high enough level to get a profession. Ideally no subject should be under level 10 so they can profess the moment they grind their skills high enough. Non military professions are also very important to the Mist Village's growth and prosperity. Also, getting a way to test for people's highest affinity to focus people's efforts and bring out the best in people should be a high priority.
     
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  6. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Definitely some great points there. And youre probably right in the short term, mostly because they never get the time to really train and stock up on anything. But i think for long term strategy, Richter isnt going to want to be reliant on other groups. He's even been uncomfortable with the hearth tree forces doing the brunt of the work so far and they're allies. Vassals would be different because they're technically his people, but the kinder arent battlefield warriors, and the same will be true of the kobold.

    Anyway, im not saying he would be breeding professionals or specialists in a month. However, as we saw in book 7, there are plenty of people who already have high skill levels in various things, and maybe just need a little potion of clarity and a dungeon dive or couple monster layers under their belt to hit lvl 10 or 20 for a profession.

    As for the others though, a couple months of hard training in the barracks with the bonus from the barracks itself, plus terrod's ability seeping through as captain of the guard, and with a decent (at least journeyman) trainer.. They should be able to take new recruits up to close to apprentuce skill levels if they focus on the one weapon they have high affinity for. Maybe higher. Richter had the boost from his air mastery, but the boost his guards would have in training is even higher, amd if they focused all the energr on one weapon they should grow quickly. Mix in some time in the dungeon or monster slaying in a war party and they should all be able to get close to or over level 10 in a few months, if thats all they were doing. Maybe higher if you throw in some potion of clarity and get richter and terrod to buy the trainer badge in war leader.

    The trainers could be the few professionals he already has, maybe a few kinder with high combat skills, or even borrowed/ hired from hearth tree, mercenaries, or dwarven kingdom. Odds are there will be a couple combat professionals/adepts in the new caravan too.

    He wouldnt have a ton of professionals, but he does have a few. And the point is he could bring the rest of his army up to the point where several of them could hold off a single professed bugbear by working together and utilizing higher quality gear, potions, and mage backup.

    MV will have a ton of mages now that richter can unlock all 4 powers in people. Technically any power if he scribes a bunch of low level books and has them copied.

    He has access to several high level magi to do training.

    As for special forces. Some of the meidon already have special forces training. Plus randy can train a few assassin-type builds.

    They wouldn't be a major force within a couple of months, but they wouldn't be fodder like they basically are now. (I say that because the mv forces fought more or less even with the golbins who literally were fodder.)

    If you give it half a year of steady growth and stockpiling powerfully enchanted weapons/potions/spell books, raising a bodak army of professed warriors, scath cavalry, enchanted warships, 1-2 more vassals, maybe another group of freed slaves... The MV would be considered a major power in their own right, at least within the peninnsula.
     
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  7. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Solid. I like the idea of him being able to train a few new war leaders and having them all save up to buy the trainer badge amd powerlevel badge. With that boost, and a portal to hearth tree for unlimited access to water of clarity, he could power level a lot of his forces and crank out professionals throughout the years.
     
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  8. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    The goblins also had a major advantage in numbers. A level 5 human probably has an advantage against a level 5 goblin. 2 goblins however, have the advantage on the human.
     
  9. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I mean comparable in overall power. The sprites are very specialized. Could the mv take them in the trees? Definitely not.

    But the HT forces only seem to number a few hundred. Richter already has almost 100 meidon, and that number is only going to rise, quickly too when they have the second round of pixies. The meidon are enhanced compared to the standard HT soldiers AND every single one of them will be able to use magic and be backed up by tiny eye gouging, magic bolt slinging, too fast to see early warning systems..

    Richter has the advantage in an open field. Well armored/weaponed soldiers, offensive and defensive potions, and a lot of mage backup. Cavalry is still a ways off though, so he would be screwed there. Unless the sepulcher could produce undead horses or something.

    I think best way to compare them is ability to defend their home. Right now HT has huge advantage, but i think a couple months and a finished wall would let MV defend against a real army if they had to.
     
  10. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I doubt HM's personal Warband is the extent of their forces (its called that at several points). Its what the sprites decided to send as their part of the allied force that targeted the goblin camp, we know they are actively at war with the bugbears on other fronts. The fact that both HM and Yoshi are at the mist village indicates there are significant forces securing the HT. No ruler is going to leave their own kingdom unprotected.
     
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  11. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Solid point.

    edit: now that I'm thinking about it, I don't even think that war band was meant for a battle. They didn't find out about the goblins or lich until after.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
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  12. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    How to best utilize the dungeon and newly strengthened monsters for power leveling the village forces:

    Invest a couple of measures of concentrated crystal in reforging a new set of elementum sword and mace for Richter, and a sword for Scion. If Black ice is really gone, then one more truelilver sword for Terrod.

    1. The rest of the available concentrated crystal (growing in the garden now) should be augmented with a special soul and then maximally harvested. Use it mo make as many high-quality metal weapons for the guards as possible (start with truesilver for the professionals, then cobalt, moonstone, and quicksilver) Can supplement with personal touch/condensed crystal. Then, enchant them with the maxed out beast slaying and a secondary level 2 or 3 enchantment.

    2. Max out the golem and Bodak count and let the teams use them to increase party size in the dungeon. Could utilize a couple of scaths for this too although I would just focus on breeding them for now.

    3. dungeon teams get priority for the weapons and golems since warbands can be a lot larger. The concentrated crystal should allow them more than double damage against beasts on every strike, plus whatever the secondary enchantment can do.

    4. assign a couple of professed warriors to dungeon diving only so ideally, every team that goes in can have a professed warrior, a meidon (with soul trap arrows) and pixie(scout), a mage, and 3 regular guards with a golem for extra protection.

    With this setup, they should be able to regularly clear the first level of the dungeon and maybe even the easiest lair. Should help power level the groups and gather a lot of resources. Richter can take all of the soul stones they gather as rent for the high-quality gear and golem. The rest would be taxed normally. This strategy can basically hold up indefinitely for any new recruits in the army to quickly get them above level 10 or so.
     
  13. Andrew Lynas

    Andrew Lynas Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    They/Richter should look into finding some Mage Adapts in Air and Fire Magic that are willing to move into the Village, and possibly find someone that they can go to for more Death Magic Spells (probably the Vampires?). Then the MV and Richter will have access to are way to Learn more Spells in all the Basic Magics when are able too.
     
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  14. Cire122

    Cire122 Level 9 (Burgler) Exiles Citizen

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    There have been a bunch of great points, but a few times people have mentioned warparties. Just a reminder warparties can't be used in the dungeon as the dungeon is not for war. Sadly the training badge wont be helpful in there which will slow things down, but not stop them.
     
  15. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Can't make truesilver weapons yet as they're a tad bit beyond Kroms ken since it's an adept ranked metal. He incurs a serious penalty of -1 to the quality level. I don't know if I'd make more elementum weapons until we got some serious schematics or just not at all. It's a great metal but, it seems that it should be used for something other than a pointy stick (per the lich). With Black Ice eventually coming back (some how, too good not to, hopefully its just a respawn thing or maybe someone knows a summon soul bound objects spell, recall lost soul or something) Richter could do with a good mace from quick silver or some such until he can snag a truesilver one.

    Love maxing out beast slaying, that's gonna be huge for the dungeon and surrounding lands
     
  16. Cire122

    Cire122 Level 9 (Burgler) Exiles Citizen

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    Beast slaying weapons to kit out his villagers for dungeon diving or being sold once the market place is up and running is a fantastic idea and should be upgraded as much as possible.
     
  17. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    1) Why spend a special :) ? 100 poor should have the same effects and you don't risk getting killed by explosive growth. Enhanced crystals have no effect on quality level, at least I don't think so. It should have some nice effects on the enchantments though, which is actually better.

    Do they have concentrated crystal in the garden? I remember them having some left from the crystal golem and they can create it in the cauldron, though the tradeoff was pretty bad.

    Either way, i like this idea

    2) Richter's golems are tied to him I believe, he'd probably have to be with said party. Bordaks, if they get that many summoning points, seems like a bad investment. Summon the cheapest undead you can that still have full potential and grind them in the dungeon, skeletons can level, we know that much.
    Probably not going to be allowed a horde of permanent undead following every party around though, they might cost a slot each. Still worth it to grind them to level 10 - 15 and just have a villager guide them around. The wealth from farming the dungeon should be delicious.

    3) Weapons of beast slaying are good, but double the damage is pretty optimistic. They also have other pressing concerns, goblins, bugbears and other enemies won't fear a weapon with beast slaying no matter how good the enchantment.
    I would put the adventurers below the guards in priority but above the common militia. Important, but not shortterm critical.

    No warparties in Dungeons.

    4) Not sure where you are getting all these golems. Richter has a max of five, each of which will be a threat to entire villages. With the growth talent, they are going to get absurdly powerful.

    Clearing the first level, should be possible without the golem though (might have to give up on parts of it, depending on the average party level). Especially once you have professed Meidon archers and battletrained pixie scouts.
     
  18. PokemonThug

    PokemonThug Level 13 (Assassin) Roleplaying Exiles Citizen

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    so looking forward to writing in here lol.. patience my dudes hehe
     
  19. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Youre right, the war parties only benefit for fighting monsters in the surrounding lands. There is a huge benefit though when the war leader reaches higher ranks they can have much larger war parties and mow through the weaker or small groups of monsters. Its safer, the experience will be a little less because its divided so much but they can make up for that by taking out a lot more and stronger monsters than they otherwise could have. Plus, there is the added bonus of making the lands slightly safer as they go. Which is basically a necessity for the village to thrive.
     
  20. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    1. Good point, im just impatient. Also i think a special would have greater effect than 100 poor. But i have nothing really to base that off of, it just seems more valuable.

    2. We still dont know how many "extras" would be allowed, but i would think a strong, professed bodak might be worth more than undead fodder who would likely just end up drawing in all the nearby beasts and screwing the team over. Like trying to play an online competitive game with a 5 year old on your team. Better off without them. And if a high level bodak could make it out alive its less of a waste of resources, like you say if the bodaks can level too then its really game on. As for golems we dont know yet but it seems they just need to be by their element and should behave like any other pet. Beyan was able to get the death knight to follow richters orders.

    3. I cant quite remember the exact numbers. But i want to say richter made a weapon of goblin slaying that had around 80% increased damage vs goblins. I dont think he used concentrated crystal on it either. The concentrated crystal should let him get the highest rank of beast slaying possible AND it boosts the enchantment by 237% (iirc). That would pack quite a punch.

    These weapons would be a massive investment of resources for the growth of the village, because they wouldnt be much good for anything else. I would probably make them scalable too if possible and they will eventually become village relics.

    War parties are for outside the village, which is also infested with beasts and monsters.

    4. 5 golems is a lot.. in this scenario, i dont think he would be able to kit out more than 3-5 dungeon teams at once. At least not for a while. But if they rotate through, the gear and golems can be used more or less continuously. This will also help Richter level his golems so its not like he's sacrificing them. He should be able to get by with one golem and a few tamed pets. He has Scion and alma after all.
     




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