MV Strategy

Discussion in 'Debates & Discussions' started by PokemonThug, May 26, 2020.

  1. Johan

    Johan Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    43%
    Messages:
    1,412
    Likes:
    510
    xp:
    743
    LitCoin:
    3,037,659
    Zorkmid:
    187
    The skeletons should probably be Archers. I was impressed with the skeleton archers since book 1. They have constant vigilance. They could also be leveled quite easily if they are not on the front lines in the Dungeon. Not a fan of putting them on the front lines until sentinels are filled out.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
    Joe Schmoe and Cire122 like this.
  2. Andrew Lynas

    Andrew Lynas Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    82%
    Messages:
    660
    Likes:
    348
    xp:
    682
    Zone:
    UK
    LitCoin:
    1,990
    Zorkmid:
    0
    Joe Schmoe, it was a 78% Boost to Damage to Goblins.
     
    Captain BlackJack and Joe Schmoe like this.
  3. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    84%
    Messages:
    261
    Likes:
    168
    xp:
    342
    LitCoin:
    46,730
    Zorkmid:
    133
    Dang I was close! Must be time for a reread..
     
    S'ahelas likes this.
  4. RedzPeng

    RedzPeng Level 6 (Footpad) Exiles Citizen

    98%
    Messages:
    12
    Likes:
    14
    xp:
    99
    LitCoin:
    1,155,283
    Zorkmid:
    81
    Richter has already mentioned that his strategic goals (or paths) lean toward mobility (roads and Rome example), trade (portal and Abbass relationship), leveraging core buildings (power of enchanted gear and powerful potions), technology (through Research and the goal of the MV being an "enlightened" meritocratic society) and the Dungeon( levelling, loot, money etc.)

    I would be very interested to see what new defense options open up at level 2 of the MV.

    I think it makes sense to continue to focus on those things and defense, because the MV is growing rapidly, and even though the only immediate threat is the Bugbears, power draws power in the land and so I'm sure more is on the way.
     
    S'ahelas and Cire122 like this.
  5. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    58%
    Messages:
    1,517
    Likes:
    689
    xp:
    758
    LitCoin:
    462,076
    Zorkmid:
    151
    2) Whether to permanently base skeletons or bodaks really depends on what they cost, how many points they earn and how much effort is required to raise them through grinding and training, vs buying.

    The Ghast presumably spent all the points that had been accumulated over the centuries to raise forces. There may be a summoning point cap, if so it wasn't stated. As it stands its possible that he spent millions of points to summon 200-300 professed bodaks. While a good way to gain forces, its going to take a long, long time before the village can raise that many.

    Meanwhile, i'd assume you can get some garbage variety of level 1 skeleton for 1-10 summoning points.

    As this is a royal hall, maybe the restoration of the kindir kingdom as well as repairing the hall will have an effect on the number of points generated?

    4) It is a lot. But they are tied to Richter. Will they be allowed to take part in a warparty in which he does not fight? Will they take a slot of their own?
     
  6. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    84%
    Messages:
    261
    Likes:
    168
    xp:
    342
    LitCoin:
    46,730
    Zorkmid:
    133

    Bodaks: Thats probably true, but a couple hundred professed bodaks, plus all the rhyme bodaks, and the strongest forces that were waiting in the last room, essentially all add up to an army that would probably steam roll the current MV forces in the open field.
    Regardless of what Nien said he litterally did raise a small army down there. Even 10 high-level, professed Bodaks would add significant expendable power to Richters current guard forces. On top of that, Richter could deck them out with much better enchanted gear than what Nien gave them. It remains to be seen if they will take up slots, but even if they do it would be worth it to have a strong soldier in each group that could sacrifice themselves in an instant in order to save a villager or allow the rest of that group to retreat.

    Edit: also i just put this in the "cheats" thread, but akaton evolution could be a way to get stronger bodaks for cheap. Richter is thrifty enough that Im sure he'll try it.

    4. Similar to above. As inanimate objects they are more expendable, so may be worth it even if they take up a slot. Plus, each new golem will likely be even stronger than sloth if richter can find more magically active materials (elementum). With his belt of sustinence, a full night of sleep, and maybe a potion made with the blueberries, he should be able to go at least one rank higher than sloth. That makes them a tank compared to any single villager.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
  7. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    58%
    Messages:
    1,517
    Likes:
    689
    xp:
    758
    LitCoin:
    462,076
    Zorkmid:
    151
    Going to see if I can't clarify my point as to why I think they will start out summining basic skeletons, and advance their point production over time.

    Centuries passed with a passive generation of 10 summoning points a day. No upper cap on stored points is mentioned.

    Purely for simplicity, lets assume a 400 day year (i believe its a bit longer than that in the land) for a duration of 200 years. That means 800.000 points in storage. Until Aleron decides that there is a cap or some kind of loss over time, that is the calculation as I see it.

    Call it 250 professionals of the advanced t1 Bodak race. That's 3200 points per undead, most likely because they are off an advanced t1 race, with high levels, gears (presumably summoned with them) and a profession. Quality and extras cost.
     
  8. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    96%
    Messages:
    790
    Likes:
    485
    xp:
    596
    LitCoin:
    922,984
    Zorkmid:
    62
    We have an answer now!
    New update to book 7
    Screenshot_20200505-192810.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
    Dragon likes this.
  9. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    58%
    Messages:
    1,517
    Likes:
    689
    xp:
    758
    LitCoin:
    462,076
    Zorkmid:
    151
    Well that means the ghast had more points to spend than I thought, so by that logic the bodaks must have been more expensive.
     
  10. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    84%
    Messages:
    261
    Likes:
    168
    xp:
    342
    LitCoin:
    46,730
    Zorkmid:
    133
    The math checks out, kind of (the strongest bodaks that were summoned with high quality gear or magical abilities were likely exponentially more expensive than the basic t1 bodaks), but I have a sneaky suspicion Richter will be getting more points by assigning a death mage to oversee the sepulcher, plus the fact that his lands are now awakened, could be potential to expend soul stones or settlement pts for summoning points, might even be a bonus to production due to the quickening or the multiple sources of extra ambient mana present in his lands.. So he could still get a handful of bodak warriors in a reasonable amount of time. Probably not the rock your socks off type but decent foot soldiers.

    He should also be able to save points by spawning them with no gear and kitting them himself with the FOH stuff. Then get a free upgrade with chaos magic. Even without a profession, a level 10-15 rhyme bodak would be stronger than most of his soldiers and hurt less if it gets eaten.

    So I dont think its out of the question to get 1 bodak right away and another every couple of weeks.
     
    Cire122 likes this.
  11. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    58%
    Messages:
    1,517
    Likes:
    689
    xp:
    758
    LitCoin:
    462,076
    Zorkmid:
    151
    I know he will find a way to make it powerful. I'm also certain it will start out weak and then grow stronger over time. So basic skellies for now.

    Even basic skeletons are going to be quite useful, a hundred level 5-10 skeletons could take an equivalent number of goblin scouts or fighters.
     
  12. Waterhobit

    Waterhobit Level 10 (Filcher) Citizen

    12%
    Messages:
    271
    Likes:
    194
    xp:
    256
    LitCoin:
    1,119,274
    Zorkmid:
    130
    I'm always a bit of an optimist on this sort of thing because there is plenty of room for AK to throw these calculations off and increase the amount of skeletons and bodaks that can be summoned. Possibilities include:
    1. Cap on stored points from before Nien
    2. Loss of points over time before Nien
    3. Increased point generation due to various bonuses from the MV/PoP/Richter
    4. Increased point generation due to overseer
    5. Increased point generation from efforts of a death mage (might power level Beyan's death magic skill)
    6. Increased point generation due to positive aliment with the Kindir descendants of the sepulcher's masters
    7. Change in nature of the sepulcher after releasing the Kindir king
    8. Use of a summoner's ring during the summoning process
    9. Increase in ambient mana due to the Dungeon
    10. AK could just just ignore math and create an unexplained inconsistency. (but there is little precedent for this)
     
    Captain BlackJack and Joe Schmoe like this.
  13. Cire122

    Cire122 Level 9 (Burgler) Exiles Citizen

    38%
    Messages:
    173
    Likes:
    84
    xp:
    219
    LitCoin:
    2,633,835
    Zorkmid:
    190
    There will have to be a way to increase point generation or make them stronger or it will be irrelevant due to power creep in just a few books. Unless of course AK doesn't view it as an important or interesting point and writes a few lines every once in a while about skeleton fodder soaking up initial enemy attacks or adding addition arrows from the back.
     
  14. PokemonThug

    PokemonThug Level 13 (Assassin) Roleplaying Exiles Citizen

    8%
    Messages:
    427
    Likes:
    131
    xp:
    426
    LitCoin:
    2,468,310
    Zorkmid:
    165
    This triggers me, you may have a talent for it Drago lol
    So you wanna say we need to wait a year to get a bodak??
    And Kindr have to wait another year?

    In 5 mo we got a vlg with 1k dudes, in few weeks it will be 2.5k dudes.. With such timing hardly its worth doing at all.
    What it feels from the book, it is that we should be able to summon them easily and quite a few, and even "gift" half to the kindr lol..

    You assume that the points were from 400 years of waiting. What if the summoning was done with the Ring of kindr king in a week.. 1 point 1 skelly.
    This can't be so limiting otherwise whats the point? in 2 years we will be in book 35. then bodaks will be irrelevant and useless, they are only useful for us in 3-6 months from now. Because Dungineering.

    Dungeon with 153 DP's per day => creates ~ 100 beasts, and loot, and grows. At like lvl 3..
    So 10 points of summoning => 10 skellies, add Beyan to pimp shit out we have 12 skellies a day. In 10 days 120 skellies, this is why they feared the clack of bones in days of old.
    Otherwise they would have trashed the mists with skelly summoning of 1 skelly in 320 days lol.

    I mean if you have to spend 3200 points for bodak. With same logic The dungeon should have had how many beasts at day 1?

    There were ~20 beasts @dungeon lvl 1, and it also had to build a cavern.
    ~75 points used for beasts => +-20 beasts.
    1 DP = 0.26 beast

    so if 3200 points is a bodak.

    For the dungoen 1 DP = 0.00008125 dungeon beast so in day 1, we would have 0.006 beast per day.
     
    Captain BlackJack likes this.
  15. Waterhobit

    Waterhobit Level 10 (Filcher) Citizen

    12%
    Messages:
    271
    Likes:
    194
    xp:
    256
    LitCoin:
    1,119,274
    Zorkmid:
    130
    There could also be a soft cap to how many sepulcher summoned minions can be in existence at a time.
     
  16. Cire122

    Cire122 Level 9 (Burgler) Exiles Citizen

    38%
    Messages:
    173
    Likes:
    84
    xp:
    219
    LitCoin:
    2,633,835
    Zorkmid:
    190
    If the skeletons never expire and there is no cap people could still fear the clacking in the mist. It just took a very long time to build the army as a check and balance. It would take too long from a book perspective, but would fit in the world we have seen built so far. Even if it was slow after a few generations of rules having a free standing army at home slowly growing for defense while you can now send your whole army on offense without having to worry about the non combatant at home would he a huge boon. If you were stuck in a stalemate with a neighbor you can just wait them out. Force them to attack where they will naturally face many more casualties vs defending or consign their grandchildren to defeat.
     
  17. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    58%
    Messages:
    1,517
    Likes:
    689
    xp:
    758
    LitCoin:
    462,076
    Zorkmid:
    151
    If you read the rest, you'd know I consider Bodaks an advanced form of undead, hence more expensive. Plus summoning a level 20+ professional is going to be way more expensive than summoning a level 1 fodder. Its all about balance.

    Also, the skeletons will be relevant in half a year, 5 years and fifty years from now. We don't see Yves and other Dungeon owning states running around with an invincible army of adventurerers.
     
  18. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

    49%
    Messages:
    718
    Likes:
    130
    xp:
    549
    LitCoin:
    1,375,782
    Zorkmid:
    84
    Pokey, you asked for it.


    Phase One

    Strategy for the Mist Village.


    When Ricther returns trusting he has time he should call upon all his people and vassals. That they might receive their orders.


    1. The Mist Village and Kinder settlements are to begin training of all its peoples for the common defense of the chiefdom. Everyone will be required to learn one ranged weapon and one melee weapon. All ages will be expected to learn fletching. Incentives shall be given to all who achieve the level of expert in ranged weapons and fletching.


    2. The people of the Mist Village and the Kinder will gain status as a denizen, citizen, a citizen vassal, or a vassal. Each of these statuses will be given specific rights. The citizen vassal will be considered the highest status without regards to rank or title.


    3. Every vassalage will build its own barracks in order to train troops to complement the Mist Village guard in times of need. They will also be expected to proved ranging guards for the mist at all times. These rangers shall patrol the lands granted to their vassalage.


    4. All existing structures should be utilized to there fullest capability. The forge, the cauldron and any other point of critical industry will expand its hours of manufacturing to a twenty four hour base. These critical jobs will be expanded into shifts working toward three eight hour shifts as skilled laborers can fill positions. Until then 12 hour shifts will be endured.


    5. A list of the Kinder vassalage population, vassalage structures, and all newcomers will be made. It will list skills, abilities, talents, and levels. This will prevent some early duplication of needed structures.


    6. All Kinder vassals and newcomers with magical abilities will report to the Mist Village Scribes to list their spells. They will also receive incentives for having those spells enscrolled. They will also be encouraged as the Mist Villagers to teach their first level spells.


    7. Flint upon his arrival will be introduced to the the village elders and Ricthers private council. Afterwards Hisako, Yoshi, Sumiko, Krom, and Randy will be informed about the Sepulcher. An explanation of its use and troops will be discussed. A Chain of command over the Sepulcher troops will be put into place. The chain of command and Sepulcher troop law will be laid out.


    8. Flint and Beyan will immediately talk, discuss, and research any way possible to improve the Sepulcher. Ricther by himself should privately look at and consider the use of the core token and or the magic core. With the dungeon consuming enough death magic from the Litch battle It might have started producing ambient death magic as well.


    I find it ridiculous to think that a king appearing to have died in peace on his throne wouldn’t have had a full contingent of warriors, bodaks, or soldiers surrounding himself. These troops wouldn’t have just disappeared as they had all been hidden away and lost to time. I also find it harder to believe that Nien could walk into a place and kill two to three hundred troops by himself. If that was an accurate count of the Sepulcher troops. I would think that Nien being a high functioning dead might perceivably be capable of taking control of other dead by the same or similar method as Singh. There could also be a limit to how many troops can be summoned within a day or specific time limit.


    9. The remaining Sepulcher troops from Ricthers Sepulcher adventure should be put into service. Any remaining Summoning points should be used.


    10. A river market should be built for the Mist Village, their vassals, and allies to draw in river traders and other communities.


    11. Randy, should be given orders to immediately start training the professional lock maker, the Rogue, prostitute, and the bard in the ways of a spy if they are agreeable. As Aleron has mentioned knowledge is power. The more the Mist Village can be made aware of the better off they will be. Knowledge is power. Ricther can only prevent or change the circumstances of situations that he is made aware of.


    11. Ricther also needs to develop the Kinder adventurers into a information highway of knowledge. The should also be employed as thieves and guides.


    Ricthers long term goals should include developing allies and building more vassalages. Not only growing his population. Although his more immediate needs are growing his and his villages power.


    12. Ricther needs to achieve all his PoP quest and his Mist Village leveling quest as soon as possible. Ricther should use his Sepulcher troops along with Beyan, Flint, and a select few others to achieve his quest. This would give them the ability to form war parties and work together in a more controlled atmosphere. This training would allow them to develop their war party abilities and level themselves up while achieving Ricthers goals. With these teams providing OPSEC for Ricthers mines, catacombs, and dungeons.


    Ricthers other team members could level up while using trap identification and removal. They could also use these newly found traps by moving them farther inside the catacombs to create a new hard line boundary between the Mist Village and the Kobolds. A new hard line boundary would increase the pressure on the Kobolds as they are backed in by the goblins, bug bears and eaters. That would create a solid hardline position to start negotiations with the kobolds and to reintroduce the Great Khan.


    The urgency to level the village could save lives. Futen had faintly recalled teleporting people. He mentioned that it might be possible if the village were leveled up. If that does become possible Futen would be capable of transporting the gravely wounded back to the village. Leveling the village up will definitely be worth it especially when it’s capable of generating and accumulating settlement points.
     
    PokemonThug likes this.
  19. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    58%
    Messages:
    1,517
    Likes:
    689
    xp:
    758
    LitCoin:
    462,076
    Zorkmid:
    151
    This is a great list captain :)

    A few thoughts

    1) Bows usually aren't that popular amongst the smaller races in fiction because they can only use relatively small ones, the sprites being a notable exception due to their universal ability to charge arrows with magic. Richter has shown he knows that the kindir have a preference for the sling - he gave them bags filled with enchanted sling bullets - and they have the schematic for the kindirs racial weapon.

    This is an interesting link laying out the whole sling vs bow in the first post.
    Slinging.org Forum - Sling vs. Bow

    I'd add that while a sling generally outranges a bow in the hands of a human, in the hands of the much smaller kindir the sling would far outrange the bow.

    8) It remained in use after his death as a royal hall. It took a long time for the kindir state to detoriate to its current condition and for the palace's location to be forgotten. Plenty of time for the kindir to lose or use any number of undead against encroaching enemies.

    That assumes something major diden't happen in the past (edit: possibly connected to whatever brought down the latest incarnation of the mist empire?) that forced the kindir to use all the forces they could scrape up in their own defense, only for them to lose the few people that knew the location of the sepulcher during the fighting along with the undead (ultimately more expendable than the kindir troops, so they'd be taking the greatest risks). If no one knows where it is, no one can summon more undead for defense. That could be the point where the kindir state's deterioration really took off and their institutions such as the monarchy broke down.

    The kindir have proven themselves to have a very long memory. Even after so many years they remember the mist empire and how to produce the mist salve as protection against the mists. I don't think they would just forget where the sepulcher was or fail to pass down the knowledge on their own. Its by far their strongest card.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2020
  20. PokemonThug

    PokemonThug Level 13 (Assassin) Roleplaying Exiles Citizen

    8%
    Messages:
    427
    Likes:
    131
    xp:
    426
    LitCoin:
    2,468,310
    Zorkmid:
    165
    Job description:
    Prostitutes and Bards wanted!
    Training will be provided By Randy, Town Administrator


    You have exceeded my expectations Cptn, this is the unorthodox approach we needed :D

    will write more later on..
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020




Share This Page