MV Tactics

Discussion in 'Debates & Discussions' started by PokemonThug, May 26, 2020.

  1. Johan

    Johan Level 18 (Magician) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I think the Dungeon is a great place to have people fall back to, if attackers are not spewing from it (shared entrance room with all entrances). An unlimited number of teams can go inside the Dungeon proper at seperated instances. Those teams just need to follow their noise to the small of eggs and bacon!
     
  2. PokemonThug

    PokemonThug Level 17 (Theurgist) Roleplaying Exiles Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    How could MV notice bugbear attack?
    • Alma scouting
    • Seance surroundings spell, meditate and release magical strings from you're core around as far as possible.
    • Hunting parties seeing bugbear tracks?!
    • Use cold rational thinking by assuming that kindr will spill the mist potion secret to everyone they meet.. and attack the bugbear camp with idea to poison/steal their food.
    We have captured a bugbear captain like 3 months ago, we know where bugbear camp is. From casting charm on him that is and questioning him.. WTf Richto just walked away at that point... still yoshi should know.
    So we should send scouts to see whats up with the camp, and plan a raid on them just in case.. Randy should be super successful. Why we did not take him to say hi to the litch?!
    It would be a real rational response to finish the wall first and investigate if kindr have delivered the see in the mist potion to the bugbears..

    Though I'd probably without any knowledge about the upcoming attack would perhaps focus on finishing like 5 basic buildings:
    marketplace, wizzards tower, summoners circle, mana tower, Crafters hut... the wall maybe..

    We will have a lot of high level beasts in the area soon, and most of you seem to forget that bugbears need potion/saw to see in the Mists.
    And they don't have a dragons cauldron also 10 miles is a lot of area.. to search.. and takes time.
    Now waking in a forest should take you at least 1mile/15 minutes. So until you would reach the MV you will need to walk for 10-15 =150 min => 2.5 hours.. maybe they will run out of the sav..
    But then how the f*** did kindr simply live in the mists?! Or do they live outside of them.
    The potion will be needed by the entire army, so a lot of it. And the longer they stay in the mists the more they risk of running out of potion.. and being cut off, surrounded.
    What if they are attacked by some beast, they are delayed, might run out of the potion..
     
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  3. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

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    Mist village Tactics. - for Pokey.

    Randy had mentioned to Ricther he had several people picked out that might make good spy’s. What better place could they learn then from the Kinder Settlement. The Kinder are a race of people known for their slight of hand, the ability to obtain, and remove what is not theirs. Randy as Ricthers head of the mist village should visit the Kinder settlement when flint returns from his mist village visit. Randy should have an entourage if his own picking for training. While visiting the settlement he should look for a place that would be suitable for a school and guild. The Kinder being known throughout the Land as the worst of thieves should be utilized to their fullest. A thieves guild could and would set rules and laws in regards to its members. With Ricthers support and Randy’s guidance they could integrate the Kinders natural gifts into a useful force for Ricthers domain.

    A thieves guild would also offer a higher level of training for Randy’s spies. A place to train stealth, slight of hand, lock smithing & picking, small blades, blade throwing, hand to hand, and all the other skills that thievs and spies might use. The wide range of skills most Kinder have allow them to fit into many places filling in where they are allowed. That is precisely what Randy’s spies need to learn. Skill sets that allow them to move into and out of different locations are critical. His Master spies running smaller out fits of knowing and unknowing participants should have a main cover Such as prostitution, minstrels, bar keeps, ambassadors, and lock smiths. Many other occupations can be used as well but these beat facilitate with the others.

    Ricther also needs to use the hidden valley they discovered the big bears camping in. He should have it warded to hide the entrance immediately when he gains the ability. That would create him a hidden location not to far from his own Village. It could be used for support and storage always Keeping a garrison there along with supplies could be a great advantage. They could also use it to hide and store village supplies.

    Another short term tactic that Ricther should use is harassing the Bugbear and Goblin encampments in a attempt to push them under ground. Ricther needs to create a solid boundary between his catacombs and the Kobolds. As the big bears and goblins are pushed under ground they will be confronted by the eaters, Kobolds, Orcs and any other race living under ground. The extra pressure pushing on the Kobolds would likely make some of their qcast eager for allies. Then Ricther should question their desire to regain the power of the Great Khans. After which he will know if his new allies would fight for the Khan. Then he can collect his reward for reuniting the Great Khan.

    When Ricther has allied with the Kobolds he will need them to grant him maps. These maps will show all of the known enemies of Ricthers alliance with entrances and exits to those tunnels. While waiting on these maps he will need Tabia making chemical mask for the Kobolds and his forces. When they are done Ricther will need to use “Shouts Gas” on them in the tunnels. Then they can use the air mages to help blow the Shout gas through the tunnels. Advancing into tunnels with chemical ask the goblins would be hard pressed to put up much of a fight. Luckily the would all be rendered helpless.

    When Basil returns he should be re-equipped for a river and sea adventure. Ricther needs to have Basil sail to the closest bank and open an account for his Lord in doing so he needs to ask for a representative to return with him. Even if he needs to entice him with gold. That way Ricther himself can deal with the bank and earn the bank reward. I think Ricther will need a bank representative located in his village. Having the only dungeon in the Land that can use the higher magic of chaos every chaotic item rewarded will need to be appraised by the banks. A bank appraisal office will be a good step toward his own bank.

    Ricther should be putting everything he can into village quest. He needs to grow and expand his village more then anything. The additional magical power and the settlement spells are well worth it. The expansion of his domain and the confusing mist alone would be worth it to me. Maximizing his village level in order to maximize his town hall is a must. Not being able to max out buildings and structures in his village will only hold him back. After driving back the Bug Bears and the Goblins nothing else is more important.
     
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  4. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Just saying
    1) Kender rely on natural abilities, they don't train as thieves and do not consider themselves thieves. Implying that they are thieves by the standards of other races is only going to tick them off. XD
    1.1) Its likely they can teach many skills that would be useful to rogues and scouts. They could certainly train slingers, a superior alternative to the bow against many types of opponents.

    2) The ashstalker goblins know that valley exist, and it is well outside the protected cover of the mist. Seems like an outpost destined to be chopped off without support as the village is 13-14 miles away. How many soldiers and mages would Richter invest into holding it? He has a pool of 200 or so warriors to draw on, and 2 level 40+ potential champions, meaning Richter himself and Randy.

    3) How precisely do you push an army underground, when their tiny and ignored local force alone outnumbers, outlevels and outskills your professional forces?
    3.1) The ashstalkers are already keeping the kobolds and eaters busy. Aleron has established that they have hundreds of thousands of members, one of the biggest goblin tribes in the peninsula (if not one of the biggest factions, its a little unclear).

    4) Not gonna say anything definit on the gas thing as I have no idea how they would produce and store enough gas to flood the catacombs, I think the modern US would be hard pressed to do such a thing given that there are so many tunnels and caverns over a massive, massive area. Nor how they would prevent the goblin shamans from cleansing the air, raising a barrier or using their own air spells to push the gas the other way while their forces pull back a bit.

    I'll grant that gas could work in a small area as a tactical weapon under the right circumstances.

    5) So the closest bank is across the straits between the river peninsula and a continent to the south, through the coastal areas, the 100 kingdoms, and into a land filled with warring warlords and highlevel monsters. That sounds like a job for a party consisting of Richter, Randy, Hisako, Sumiko and Yoshi, no offense to our valiant trader, its just beyond his abilities. I'm guessing that journey will actually happen in the books at some point.

    6) Expansion is always the right choice. Except when you need to develop the interior instead, but that's a bit off in the future.
     
  5. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

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    1. Nobody said to go into the Kinder village and call them all thieves.

    The Kinders natural abilities lend to specific abilities. Submerging a group into their surroundings would eventually give them edges that other do not have. There is NO DOUBT that Kinder have an Innate ability to remove possessions from others without their knowledge or permission. The Kinder might not feel that their strong appreciation for others possessions is a crime but the rest of the land does see it that way. That in a nut shell makes this all the greater. A thieves guild in the Kinder settlement will not hurt Ricther mist village crime level. Ricther could call the guild a school of appreciation of others possessions.
    If they truly feel the way it’s stated a thieves guild will not effect the Kinders Settlement either. If anything it would be seen as a school of survival for Kinder that travel abroad teaching their life skills and honing their abilities.

    2 It doesn’t matter if the ashstalkers or bugbears knows the valley exists. What matters is that the ones that were familiar with it are dead. It still can’t be seen from all angles and as I said once the entrance can be warded it won’t matter. The key is getting the wards to seal it off making it disappear. After that unless you were granted access it wouldn’t even exist.

    3. Would one need to shot at you constantly or periodically take crack shots to make you keep your head down?

    Harassing fall and winter attacks by all means. I know you do t like it. I know youbthink defenses make you impervious to everything possible. That’s why I didn’t elaborate. I knew you would take up the same argument. You believe that defense make you completely Indestructible. I believe that hard structure gives definitive targets that are stuck in fixed positions.

    Bombardment from land and air will have a toll on any fixed position. Fire bombing their buildings and defenses, using Ricthers golem, or Golems, the Wurm, imbued arrows, and plenty of magic.

    It’s not that you need to drive them all underground. Some of them are already there.

    4. Not every square foot of the catacombs need to be gassed only the enemy strong holds. That is the point of the maps marked with positions, exits, and entrances.

    War is always about intelligence, speed of action, and surprise. There are always counters to every action.

    5. Perhaps so, Basil has been pretty good so far finding his way and hiring those who he needs for protection. Those are skills traders must have in order to be successful at their professions.

    6 The expansion of Ricthers powers being ramped up with the awakening of his last two powers being awakened should be substantial. The Mist should have expanded as his domain. That will also allow Ricther to use his dungeon transport spell from greater distances. Surprise attacks and teleport getaways would make a huge difference for Ricthers forces. Rising from the mist and releasing arrows. Then vanishing back to the village instantly when they want is major.
     
  6. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    1) I agree it could work. I'm just saying calling kindir thieves is going to offend them deeply XD

    2) We know that a hundred or so troll mercenaries were allowed to retreat, they have had some time to familiarize themselves with the village. Plus the goblins are likely to have moved back in, desperate to save the bloodstone as well as to scavenge the field for food and loot.

    3) I don't think that. I think every raid into enemy territory is a flip of the coin, and that a loss to the village is likely to hurt far more than a comparable loss to the bugbears/ goblins who have the homefield advantage in addition to fortifications giving them increased line of sight and range.

    I'm not saying no raid will succeed, but i am saying that the bugbears will be doing their best to give as good as they get and that with the range advantage they can certainly hit the much smaller sprites that primarily use shortbows vs their longbows. Its a strategy of attrition that might favor the village in total loses accrued but relatively speaking it will break the bugbears way.

    With the troops under Grim'ault alone they have 5 bugbears per village warrior, many of them more seasoned even if they are a little lacking in gear. Even if they lost every warrior under grimault taking out the village army, the bugbears are in a much better position to raise another army.

    I know you think fortifications are worthless despite their long history of helping defenders break far, far larger forces that they could never face in the open field or holding them off for months or years while winnowing them down and exhausting their will to fight. Like the first invasion of Rhodes in 1480 where 500 knights and 2000 soldiers broke a 70.000 strong ottoman army after a 3 month siege.

    The ottomans lost 9000 men in the siege with another 15000 wounded. The defenders suffered very few losses.


    The second siege in 1522 when the Ottoman's brought 100.000 against the orders 6700 was ultimately successfull, and it highlights some of the points you've made about the weaknesses of fortresses. Then again the defenders held off an army that outnumbered them nearly 20 times over and had far more artillary for several months. They inflicted at least 8000 casualties in return for 5020.

    Its notable some christian sources puts the Ottoman loses at 108.000 but that is probably not true.

    By your logic they would have won if they counterattacked the Ottoman army due to their increased mobility XD

    4) Okay that makes a lot more sense. Gas is a potential gamechanger. It depends on how much they can produce, how rapidly it can be deployed and how effective it is against goblins. My feeling is that goblins probably have an innate resistance to poisons and gasses, but they are mostly lowlevel trash so that resistance should be limited by their low constitutions, meaning they might have to fight a relative small number of goblin elites. Its a great counter to mass attacks like the ones goblins and eaters have so far used though.
     
  7. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    5) We'll see. I'm thinking there is a big difference between traveling a hundred miles with guides that know the way and several thousand miles into an area of which only legends are known. Basil does have a talent for getting things done so you may well be right.

    6) I'm not disagreeing with you, though it diden't seem like the bugbear scout had noticed the mist expanding. Expansion is critical.

    Richter's currrent teleportation is fairly limited, its only five feet around him. It does have one major military application in conjunction with local portals. Normally those are one-way, but with Richter's Dungeon teleport he can travel to a threathened/ doomed outpost and port small groups out over and over. That's a huge advantage if Richter ever decides to built that riverport at the edge of the mist.
     
  8. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    As I've said elsewhere, Richter's greatest advantages lie in soft power, meaning they are economic and political. Especially political at the moment as his economic advantages are only just getting up and running. As I see it this is Richter's most solid path to unifying the forest under his rule.

    1) Unite the dispirate sprite tribes under Sion's rule, which by extension means Richter's rule. This is already happening with the Meidon's, but they need to get proactive about it and send out messengers to every corner of the forest instead of waiting for a trickle of sprites to get their own pixie companions. Former wood sprites should be sent to the southern wood sprite tribes as well as smaller independent tribes of wood sprites. In a similar vein former forest sprites should seek out any roaming forest sprites that they know the location off, in order to spread the news throughout that community. Any other known sprite communities should be contacted, hopefully the news will travel from there.

    At worst Richter will gain several new allies and a lot of new sprite citizens leaving their homes to defend the pixies whether their leaders want to remain independent or not.

    Its a winning ticket and Richter should cash it in instead of standing around with his thumb up his ass.

    2) Second and less certain are the kobolds. On the plus side they need Richter and the village far more than he needs them at the moment. Economically they can contribute little more than raw materials and militarily speaking, their warriors are already busy fighting Richter's enemies in a war they are losing.

    There is also the matter of the kobold khan, which will likely imprint on Richter.

    Ideally Richter would have the kobold empire restored with the new khan as ruler and himself as regent. More realistically, the old kobold empire is dead and Richter should attempt to convince as many kobold clans as he can to follow their new khan.

    For this he has at least six advantages:
    2.1) A sliver of legitimacy from the Khan. This will allow the current leadership to save face if they do decide to submit, as they are really showing themselves to be patriots, not greedy or desperate for a helping hand to turn the tide.
    2.2) Trade. The kobolds are cut off from the outside world, hated and despised to the point where no one would blink at the suggestion of slaughtering them in cold blood for the crime of living in old abandoned ruins. A trading partner would allow them access to the markets around the peninsula.
    2.3) Goods. The kobolds are in need of a serious upgrade to their hardware. Their lower castes wear equipment worse than what the goblins scavenge off of the battlefields. Cavalry and elite fighters have their place, but its the hordes of foot soldiers that win wars.
    Potions should also be of immense value.
    2.4) Military support.
    2.5) Political recognition. Ultimately the goblins and the eaters probably can't be beaten by a resurgent kobold empire fighting on its own. Richter can open doors for them to gain other allies, even among races that would normally never consider agreeing to as much as an alliance of convenience.
    2.6) He has dragonblood in his veins. Kobolds usually worship dragons as gods, which could mean it cancels out their natural enmity towards humans and vice versa.

    If handled correctly Richter can make the kobolds dependant on the village economically, politically and militarily. From there the path to a vassalaged kobold empire isn't that long.

    The only fly in the ointment is finding a kobold leader who is willing to deal.
     
  9. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

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    1.Again, So why do you want to offend them by calling them thieves?

    2 I don’t think the trolls would want anything else to do with fighting against Ricther after seeing the Goblin battle aftermath.

    3. Every incursion into occupied territory is only as good as your intelligence. Information is always key.

    I never said fortifications are useless. That’s going to extremes again. I have said repeatedly that fortifications will increase casualties but they really only buy time.

    In your historical quotes they didn’t have air support nor Air superiority. They just didntbhave the same abilities that change the game. Ricther could achieve both air support and superiority. Air bombardment is a powerful weapon that shouldn’t be ever be discounted as well as gorilla warfare.

    Words of a huge meaning and should be used Precisely. I have mentioned using ranged hit and ran attacks, air attacks, and bombardments. I never said that they should attack going toe to toe.

    You continuously want to make any engagement a lengthy hand to hand engagement crashing on the gates of Hell. Anyone with any reason would understand that fully engaging a larger stronger army continually would set a course for failure.

    Besides air Ricthers world has lots of magic. Goblins and Bugbears both have some casters. Even at that it comes back to surprise attacks. First strikes are always critical. Death falling from above silently and spells cast from a distance don’t give advanced warnings. Not like men running waving swords trying to cause fear. Arrows often fall from darkness causing much panic and death. That’s not like beating on a gate with a battering ram. Then add in Ricthers other game changers like Golems and the Wurm you have something a bit different then a medieval classical battle.

    4 Ricthers poisoned food worked pretty darn good when he first encountered goblins.
     
  10. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 18 (Magician) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I got money on the the one he lives on top of being the most reasonable.
     
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  11. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 18 (Magician) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Only chiming in here that it was swallowed here, which seems to have a much greater effect in other poisoning instances so far. It could be their resistance to gaseous poisons is higher due to their bog/ swamp style of living.
     
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  12. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

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    Yeah, but I’m talking about Shout Gas!

    It’s a brand of designer gas. One of them gives massive disabilities due to mana drain.

    Shout gas might even have a knockout gas, choking gas, blinding gas or it could be a chemical gas like Chlorine gas.
     
  13. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

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    I totally agree. They were among the weakest cast and the ones that would have likely suffered the most from the loss of the Khans. I’m doubling down with you.
     
  14. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 18 (Magician) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Oh the induced mana headaches by mana drain poisons?
     
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  15. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

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    Yes and any number of other possibilities that that “Shout Gas” can manufacture. Really it wouldn’t be too hard just plain smoke would mess up most beings if it was thick enough. For instance oil or pitch on fresh cut hay stacked and set on fire would be bad enough.
     
  16. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

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    Randy, Hisako, and Yoshi should be well versed on the importance of real time intelligence. They should assign Alma with multiple strike teams to coordinate key location check points. As the strike times move outward away from the village Alma should fly spiraling out from the Mist Village. As she spirals out she would be capable of overflights of each strike team. When they reach a predestined location she could do a larger fly over of the area. If something attack’s her while flying her over flight she could use the strike party as a trap flying her pursuer over the strike group. For ground to air support. Each strike party should have a additional archers or should be doubled in size. Ricthers adventurers map should be constantly monitored. Eventually Ricther should have all of his strike parties included to his adventurers map.
     




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