Observations of the LitRPG scene (and why we need better classifications and a neutral voice)

Discussion in 'All Things LitRPG' started by Windfall, Dec 22, 2017.

  1. CheshirePhoenix

    CheshirePhoenix Crazy Hermit on the Hill LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Editor Aspiring Writer

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    I think a decent workaround is making the character feel out of time - like people today who think they should’ve been born in the 50s, have the character think they should’ve been born in the 2000s.

    Then have nobody else in the book understand the references.

    It allows you to put in those pop culture references for readers to identify with, and not have it all that strange that they’re coming from someone who’s 2000 years old, or who lives in the year 4980 when we’ve been enslaved by aliens or whatever.
     
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  2. FrustratedEgo

    FrustratedEgo Level 11 (Thief) LitRPG Author Roleplaying Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    I've seen this done in at least three different novels. It's weird every time. The last one I remember reading was a book set in around 2150 or something - where people were into different eras - mainly music. The main character was into something from the 60s or so. They'd constantly be playing songs from that time and quoting movies, dressing up, and so on.

    The reason I found this clunky is partially relatability. They picked eras that made no sense. Someone who liked jazz music enough to reference famous dancers, music videos, styles of clothing - it's a bit far out. People who were super into one era during my High School years were kind of one dimensional. Everything fed back into that topic, and if it wasn't on that topic - it didn't matter or they wouldn't engage. I didn't hate or dislike those people, I just had nothing to talk to them about. It's no different than loving DC or Marvel or Matt Demon movies - but it's dangerous as a character trait without more.

    If you chose to use this sort of thing in writing, obviously we need to see a version of this ....mild obsession (I think, is a tactful way to phrase it if they've embedded themselves in an era outside their own) - that is relatable and still isn't jarring to the story.

    I just haven't read it done well without being overboard - and I've read....far, far too much. I used to be a book a day person. (We're talking a new 110k word novel each day for a decade)
     
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  3. CheshirePhoenix

    CheshirePhoenix Crazy Hermit on the Hill LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Editor Aspiring Writer

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    I’m a 2-3 books a day person myself, according to my KU history. More if you take into account the ones I buy using my kindle budget.

    I agree, pop culture references are pretty hard to do. You have to correctly identify your readers, know their tastes, and tailor your references to those tastes. It limits your market, a LOT. But for the people you’re targeting, your stuff is absolutely fantastic - to everyone else it’s just okay or decent, at best.
     
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  4. Windfall

    Windfall Level 18 (Magician) LitRPG Author Citizen

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    Personally, I don't like pop culture references because I don't always get them. :p

    How do you even read 100k a day or 2-3 books a day without skimming like crazy?
     
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  5. CheshirePhoenix

    CheshirePhoenix Crazy Hermit on the Hill LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Editor Aspiring Writer

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    I read 900+ words a minute on average. Pretty sure I’ve caught myself reading two lines at a time, but that could just all be in my head.

    When reading for pleasure, and I’m not going to be quizzed on it or have to pay attention to it, I read faster. There’s some word skipping but I still understand what’s happening. Grammar and spelling issues slow me down some, since I can’t help but spot them as I’m reading and it takes my brain a second to translate from shitelish to english.
     
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  6. MrPotatoMan

    MrPotatoMan Level 13 (Assassin) Citizen

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    Not only that bit if you incorporate the reference in the wrong way it can totally break flow or cheapen the book "cough cough" the land "cough cough"
     
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  7. MrPotatoMan

    MrPotatoMan Level 13 (Assassin) Citizen

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    the problem with that is you risk weakening your character with that I really liked how the solar clipper series did it by makeing the MCs mother an anchent Lit major so he made the refrences in more of a picard like fasion
     
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  8. CheshirePhoenix

    CheshirePhoenix Crazy Hermit on the Hill LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Editor Aspiring Writer

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    Yeah, the point is that there’s no GOOD way to put pop culture references in a fantasy/sf novel. There are only less bad ways.
     
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  9. MrPotatoMan

    MrPotatoMan Level 13 (Assassin) Citizen

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    I disagree example bobiverse however i am aware that book is an acception given the MC is from the 2000s
     
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  10. CheshirePhoenix

    CheshirePhoenix Crazy Hermit on the Hill LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Editor Aspiring Writer

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    I read the first bobiverse book but didn’t really love it and dropped the rest of the series.
     
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  11. NoMan2000

    NoMan2000 Level 4 (Warrior) Citizen

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    Hey, people like my blog. Woot woot. :D

    As for why more people don't read it, I write long-form essays for most of my stuff. The average reader doesn't care. They don't want a breakdown on what went wrong or right in a novel, they want a quick summary of why they should or shouldn't read a book. My reputation is pretty high with most writers as opposed to readers, for precisely the opposite reason. Writers typically want a thorough explanation of what works, doesn't work, why, alternatives, and investigations into what other authors are doing.

    Anyway, my comment for one portion:

    The Iron Druid series is another example. It has a metric ton of pop culture references - from a character who's like 2 thousand years old. Like he has nothing but time in his brain to memorize stuff that a 30ish year old person can identify with. This seems strange considering the druid is so damn old.
    The Iron Druid does explain that. One of Atticus jobs' as a druid is to explain the mortal World to the Fae court, including current technology, culture, etc. He takes Fae gods and goddesses to baseball games and explains how blenders work to them, for example.

    The other explanation that it gives is that he's spent most of his life hiding how old he is, so he constantly tries to look/act like he's young. He compares this against other long-lived creatures like vampires, who often make inappropriate or incorrect idioms of speech.

    He also has two sets of references, his pop culture references and his high-culture references. He quotes Shakespeare, Yeats, and quite a few other high literary references as well. His low-brow humor is explained by stating that he's found that druids who take things too seriously ended up killing themselves or deliberately destroying their minds by turning into an animal and never reverting back into human form.

    The references are for laughs, but the story does try to give possible reasons for it. That's very different from:

    The Land is bad in this regard. In theory the person isn't even on earth anymore, hasn't been, wasn't been, willn't be, yet he has a portal to the latest movies and so on. From a writer standpoint, I get it - from a true to character standpoint, it's utter nonsense and breaks any attempts at immersion.​

    The Land also takes place entirely within around four months from book 1 - 7. Aleron could explain that away by stating that the time period at which the guy gets sucked into the Land is in the 2020s.

    That said, the people in the Land should look at the MC like he's an idiot. They have no points of reference for what a television, CD, etc. even are, much less why those things would be funny.

    But it also uses a joke from "What Does the Fox Say?", so it's not exactly high-brow literature level here. (Couple that with constant penis references and/or jokes.) So I don't think Aleron is trying to go for anything greater than "Hey, I recognize that thing. Don't you recognize that thing too! That makes it funny! Because we recognize stuff!"
     
  12. Alexis Keane

    Alexis Keane Level 14 (Defender) Roleplaying Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    To say that he is an idiot is the most chronically anti-intellectual statement of the century. Richter is the sort of mind that appears once every century (and no, he's not on the right hand side of the bell curve). He shovels pop culture references down everyone's throats like it's grain to fatten foie gras geese. It's the ultimate failure of his character, you're unable to empathize with him (because, hey, he's a massive twat waffle) but compensates for it by an emesis of emetic pop culture references (because, hey, lets piggyback actual successes in life and the general internet attention economy to compensate for my blackhole personality).

    p.s. love your site btw.
     
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  13. Windfall

    Windfall Level 18 (Magician) LitRPG Author Citizen

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    Please don't stop doing what you're doing. It's great. I've read all your articles and I really appreciate your long articles especially in this age where every website expects you to have the attention span of a goldfish. Also, thank you for introducing me to the Extra Credits channel -- lots of great stuff there.
     
  14. Gryphon

    Gryphon Level 18 (Magician) LitRPG Author Citizen

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    I still would love that if the end of the series reveals that he really is the villian.
     
  15. CheshirePhoenix

    CheshirePhoenix Crazy Hermit on the Hill LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Editor Aspiring Writer

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    He’s too much of an author self-insert for that to actually happen, but if that were what King Dong is building toward, it’d still be bad because it’s too blatant.

    Foreshadowing should be subtle enough for a twist to remain unexpected until after the fact, when hindsight kicks in and you think “ohhhhh, wow that makes sense!”
     




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