Ranger Scion anti mage combo

Discussion in 'Debates & Discussions' started by Joe Schmoe, Dec 14, 2020.

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Will it work?

  1. Hell yes!

    71.4%
  2. not a chance

    28.6%
  1. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 12 (Rogue) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Scion will be a professed Ranger in the next book I think. This battle plan is for a little way in the future and would require two things to be obtained. This set up would be for another powerful enemy mage, possibly even on Sing's level.

    Strategy 1:

    1. Another (ideally several) of the arrowheads of negation Richter bought from Hafiz and used against Ronin's mage. Richter needs to learn this enchantment.

    2. More Darkstone.

    The arrows needed will be enchanted by Richter.
    The first arrow will have multishot and negation dual enchantment on a poisoned dark stone arrowhead.
    The second arrow will also be dual enchanted with multishot and Richter's paralysis spell on a poisoned dark stone arrowhead.
    The third arrow is the kill shot and can be anything lethal really.

    Step one: Scion activates the multi-shot ranger talent and the double shot sub-skill. Theoretically, he sends 25 arrows of negation at the mage in a single shot. Some of these should penetrate the shield and between the pain, dark stone, and psi-poison the shield should also drop.

    Step two: the second salvo of five arrows of paralysis is already on the way.

    Step three: In less than a second, the mage will ideally be down, psi-poisoned, and paralyzed. ability to cast any spells should be totally removed. Now he mops up with a well-imbued shot.

    No more enemy mage. Scion brushes his shoulder off and sniffs.


    Strategy Two:

    For less powerful mages, a single arrow with negation enchantment maxed out, psi poison, and stun shot sub-skill would also work really well. Any of the high skill archers should be able to do this.
    -- the Negation enchantment could be one of the most valuable enchantment's we've seen so far.

    Conclusion:

    Imagine if the Litch battle had occurred a couple of months later in the timeline and when Scion and Richter first laid eyes on the Litch, this was their response. Scion with the first strategy and Richter with the second. I think there is a decent chance that the final drawn-out fight would have ended before it even truly began.


    edited: updated psi-poison and added the second strategy and conclusion.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2020
  2. Dragon

    Dragon Level 17 (Theurgist) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Is that how it works? I thought multishot multiplied regular arrows, not any and all other enchantments put on the original arrow.
     
  3. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    After the first shot I think darkstone would be a waste of money. Multi shot should recreate the enchantments from the initial arrow head (and even some imbue arrow damage) though I think only the "original" arrow keeps max damage. Don't know how it would interact with something like being dipped in poison.

    If he can get his shots off before any shields are raised I'd argue it's over kill. Mages are generally pretty squishy and taking an arrow with any (let alone all that) is basically gonna put them down.

    If the mage already has a shield up I think the better way to bypass it, is gonna be to have arrows like in book 7. Still use darkstone in case they have crazy focus or anything like that where they won't stumble and accidentally cancel their shield, but negation arrow only had a chance of going through the shields, whereas the other way was repeatable.

    Slight alteration:

    1) Expansive Quiver for the following: 8 sets of dual enchanted darkstone arrows, each with a different dominant basic element and the tertiary enchantment can be to taste (confusion, multi, +damage, whatever). Poison to taste. Bonus, there are 2 extra slots in the base expansive quiver (starts with 10 slots) so I maybe some deeper magic arrows to really f**k up their day. Can call whichever arrow he wants right to his hand, no fumbling.
    2) Expansive Quiver 2: High steel beat sticks. Single enchantment, bread and butter, just there for damage kind of arrows. Imbue will be doing the work here.

    The biggest problem I can see for Sion being a mage killer is that instead of working with a deeper magic imbuement, he's got Air, which may throw off whether he can imbue shots through some shields.

    Otherwise... Yeah. That'd definitely kill mages.
     
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  4. Andrew Lynas

    Andrew Lynas Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Enchantments and Imbuements on Arrows can be Multiplied but at a much reduced Strength, the original Arrow stays the same strength unlike the copys. Not sure about Skills on Arrows that are Multiplied but I'm guessing the same.
     
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  5. Dragon

    Dragon Level 17 (Theurgist) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    For balance purposes I imagine the chance of negation triggering on a copy arrow will be much lower than it is on the original. That said, how would this work against a dual-layer shield?
     
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  6. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 12 (Rogue) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    You guys bring up good points. Shout, the idea behind using negation arrows instead of the technique Richter was using in book 7 is because it would theoretically work on any shield, even higher level shields that might also block attacks of the same nature as the shield. I fully expect these to start popping up now since the dual enchantment thing is just too easy for bypassing shields. The other thing is this strategy makes it so he can go 50-50 on the enchantments instead of 75-25. It also lets him act faster by removing the steps of identifying the shield type and selecting the right arrow type. I'm a big fan of the expansive quiver idea though, big fan!

    The cost of resources for this attack strategy is high for sure, so it would only be for high-level mages who had already managed to erect a shield to protect themselves. The advantage though, since he isn't imbuing he should have a good chance to retrieve arrows. I'm betting there is another talent that would let him increase the chance to retrieve enchanted arrows. Heck, he could even add soul bond level 2 and give scion the ability to recall the arrow to his hand mid-fight!

    Lynas, yes the power of the copied arrows is weakened, if it weakens the extra enchantment ability though I'm not sure, also not sure if it weakens the effect of dark stone. I know it definitely weakens the damage, but volley 1 and 2 aren't really for damage in this scenario. I'm thinking darkstone should hold a pretty high-ranking dual enchantment, so even at a reduced chance of negation, 25 arrow copies should be almost certain for one to make it through and that's really all it should take to interfere with the mage's ability to maintain a shield.

    On a side note, I feel like making a bunch of arrows enchanted with multi-shot alone is a hugely powerful weapon in the hands of a large force of Meidon. Each one of them can release their own individual enhanced death lotus at a rate of 1 per second for a consistent amount of time. If you put 50 Meidons armed with those arrows back in the goblin battle... that army would have been devastated before the mele even began. This should really be a priority for him to kit each Meidon with an expansive quiver and a couple dozen of multi-shot arrows each. It would be nice to see this in the upcoming siege of the MV but I don't see it happening.
     
  7. Dragon

    Dragon Level 17 (Theurgist) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Loving this idea though its gamebreaking as hell. Definitely would need to mod the system so the enhancement mana is either
    A) Split between the arrows or
    B) Only on the original arrow.

    Because with the sprite ability in play multishot becomes extremely powerful. Copying enchantments and arrow effects like that should have been a higher tier enchantment in my opinion. Multishot is already extremely powerful as a plain enchantment, given that it multiplies the rate of fire of the archers at no mana cost to them. 50 archers could fire thousands of arrows in a few minutes with this enchantment. Imagine being part of an infantry charge trying to break through, even with heavy armor and shields you'd be losing a lot of men.
     
  8. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

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    This really makes me feel like “Sam I Am”.

    Now would you could you try green eggs and ham?

    Might you reconsider?

    Fifty archers with enchanted, multi-shot, imbued arrows. Foxfire burning so hot falling like shite from sparrrows. With Golems hurling boulders through the air it would look like bowling and getting a spare. Winter camps and palisades cracking, bursting, blowing up into flame. Running the enemy under ground into the belly of Worm he did tame.
     
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  9. Dragon

    Dragon Level 17 (Theurgist) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Not really changing the basic problems of the village attacking on its own. Assuming the bugbears have a similar setup to what the goblins had in the valley, they'll have picked a high-ground location with a good view of the surroundings where its possible (possibly in strongholds captured from the local tribes), built watchtowers and at least a basic palisade around each camp. Unlike the goblins the bugbears are a lot better organised and far more diciplined so i'd expect their watchers to actually do their jobs and have systems in place for reporting in at random intervals.

    Considering bugbears can use longbows thereas sprites can only use shortbows, they have a significant range advantage in an archer duel. The sprite archers are far more deadly once they get into range, but they need to get there.

    In the brutal calculation of war the bugbears might just end up counting a 10 for 1 ratio of loses as a win, even if the village won the day. They can far more easily raise new forces to replace what they've lost, thereas the village has an extremely shallow manpower pool.
     
  10. Dragon

    Dragon Level 17 (Theurgist) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Engineering - The Roman Military

    I'm not saying the bugbears are as good at setting up camp as the romans were. They don't have to be as they've had plenty of time to dig in.
     
  11. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 12 (Rogue) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Valid point, but in terms of the village being seiged by the bugbears. The village archers have towers which should even the range gap. Unfortunetly, i think they made theor towers out of wood, which they will surely regret.
     
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  12. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 12 (Rogue) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I absolutely agree with you that would have made perfect sense as a level 2 addition.

    But we can get even more game breaking than standard multi-shot. Dual enchanting them with multi shot and mana stealing. Make the first volley multi shot and aura lance, then pepper them with multi-mana stealing arrows and it would be the equivalent of troops running across no mans land straight into machine gun fire.
     
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  13. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 12 (Rogue) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Going back to the first post for Scions strategy, Alma's psi poison would likely be the best tool for that particular job.
     
  14. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 12 (Rogue) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Following up on strategies for Scion.

    I'd like to see him begin mental training exercises with Richter and Alma, then try to learn some deep magic. For some reason I forsee him getting a unique ranger specialty that allows him to tie spells into his arrow imbuement in the future.

    Between mental training and his "know thyself" ability, he should be just as capable as richter with safely using low level deeper magic. Using Aura lance this way would make him very dangerous.
     
  15. Dragon

    Dragon Level 17 (Theurgist) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    With the right coating wooden towers won't burn as easily, especially not when they are built from green timber. Assuming the villagers cleared away any undergrowth, the bugbears/ raiders will have a hard time torching them from a distance.

    Many early and mid medieval fortresses were made from wood. Its a cheaper alternative to stone and it does stand up to most attacks.
     
  16. Andrew Lynas

    Andrew Lynas Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Plus making them more Fire Resistant can be further done by adding Treated Leathers, costing with Fire Resistant Compounds & Potions, with the use of Macro Enchantments and by dousing then with water (say by via the Rain fall spell).
     
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  17. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 12 (Rogue) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Totally forgot about the rain spell!
     
  18. PokemonThug

    PokemonThug Level 13 (Assassin) Roleplaying Exiles Citizen

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    So say you are stuck in catacombs.. or a dungeon .. or underground.. and have no water.
    But you know the rain spell and have a moderate mana pool.. what is you would cast rain on yourself and try to drink as much as you can using your shirt as a makeshift reverse roof to channel water?
    If spell works on plants it was to work on you too?!
     
  19. Andrew Lynas

    Andrew Lynas Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    The Rain Spell was changed quite some time back so that it only works Outside in the Open Air now. Plus Humans(/& Animals) aren't Plants, more complicated (and in many ways more delicate) design and functions means more easily messed up.

    A Spell that Actively Pulls Actual Pure Water Moisture from the surroundings (air?, other sources?) rather then using Magic to Create Water from Water Mana should work quite well, even if it just created a double cupped palm full would be more then enough to survive on with repeated castings, but the dryer the environment then either the more Mana is needed or the less you get?
     
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  20. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 12 (Rogue) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Anyone else a little miffed that Scion didnt gain the war leader skill when he got the first meidon mark? I personally feel he should gain that skill.
     
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