Skills/Abilities/Feats: Instant or Earned?

Discussion in 'All Things LitRPG' started by Jay, Jul 4, 2018.

  1. RauthrMystic

    RauthrMystic Elf Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    As a reader the only thing I'll point out is that a skill should increase if it's one that is used. Not to say you can't also put a skill point to jump it up to the next level. I do like the idea of a skill point being required to unlock a perk (assuming it's not something that would be easy to learn from a teacher).

    otherwise. This is a fantastic conversation!!! luv it
     
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  2. Paul Bellow

    Paul Bellow Forum Game Master Staff Member LitRPG Author Shop Owner Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    Yeah, I went with a split kinda. While characters can level up with a book, it takes longer and isn't as effective as finding a teacher to learn the new skill(s) on level gain.
     
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  3. Thomas Davidsmeier

    Thomas Davidsmeier Level 12 (Rogue) LitRPG Author Citizen

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    My skill system has only six levels per skill. Novice, Apprentice, Journeyman, Expert, Master, Legend.

    To move above certain levels in certain skills, there are requirements that have to be met for the players. Sometimes, it will be a teacher, other times it will be a particular experience, like seeing someone else cast a Master version of that spell. Lore and knowledge skills are level-able from books.
     
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  4. RauthrMystic

    RauthrMystic Elf Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    I actually like that. It allows the reader to feel like they are seeing something important.
     
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  5. RauthrMystic

    RauthrMystic Elf Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    This fits in with this conversation, but would be a side topic so I don't know if I should post it here or make a new thread. SOOOO i'll just post it here.

    In LitRPG our characters are being put in a virtual world (or digital or something). Often the technology that allows this to take place is somehow linking directly into our brain. For those that don't know, our brain can't distinguish one 'reality' from another. Whatever it senses and feels is very real to it. So that being said, these skills that they are learning, however they are learning them *could* (in theory) affect them in both realities. It's something I ponder when reading these things hoping to see some affect of the virtual world on the character in 'real life'. I'm not saying that it would directly translate or translate in a one to one basis. However virtually increasing intelligence (however the author describes that) would eventually impact the actual brains functions. I suppose that's an argument that could be had by the technophobes, that the technology is bad b/c it can change you.

    Id on't know if I've really described this very well but I think of it a lot as i'm reading. I can think of a couple novels that touch on this: Greystone chronicles (I think thats the series title) and another that slips my mind completly. However both of these focus on how the capsule increases physical health. Anyway, I'd love your thoughts on the topic
     
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  6. Jay

    Jay Hiatus. LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    That's a really interesting idea. It would probably depend on the skill and what it was in game to say if it carried over into real life.

    For example, alchemy likely wouldn't work. I mean, in game you could combine eye of newt and hair of dog to make xyz, but that definitely wouldn't do it in real life!

    And more difficult physical activities wouldn't really translate well because your real body wouldn't be fit enough or limber enough (probably anyway) to actually do the back-flips or other intense physical ability.

    However, I could see some manual ones translating really well, such as sewing, playing an instrument, or weaving. While you might have to work on the hand-strength, your brain could potentially have the movements "written" on it from game so in real life you could pick it up fairly quickly.

    It would likely honestly depend on how realistic the game was and how close it was modeled after real life. Like in some games, cooking is outrageously simple. You can just throw flour and peaches together and make a peach pie when in real life you need several more ingredients than that, as well as having to mix and roll and shape the pie. So it would really depend on the game itself if the skills from one world would be applicable to the other.

    At least that's my late night thought if I'm understanding right.
     
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  7. Viergacht

    Viergacht Thunderdragon LitRPG Author Roleplaying Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    My take on it is I don't like to see skill leveling for something a person should be able to do in real life at all - you talk to an NPC and get a level in persuasion? Have you never in your entire life tried to persuade another human being of something? You throw a rabbit in a stewpot and get a cooking skill? Have you been surviving on take-out and cereal your whole life in the real world? It's one of those suspensions of disbelief I just can't do, because an average person should already have these skills. Now, if you got into the game and specialized as a bard, and THEN started leveling from whatever skill you already had at persuasion, which should not be 0, then it's not so bad.

    Anyways, I do like to see the character work at something rather than have it handed to them. Or, if the *ability* is handed to them, then struggle to learn how to control it, or use it creatively rather than as a get out of jail free card when the author feels lazy.
     
  8. RauthrMystic

    RauthrMystic Elf Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    I get that. I hadn't thought of any specific skills. Cooking is a good random example. LitRPG being the varied genre that it is, I could see more realistic skills happening. THanks for your late night response. I tried to stay up but I was done.
     
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  9. RauthrMystic

    RauthrMystic Elf Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    You too pointed out a really specific example. I appreciate that. My thought was more overarching. I still think there is an opportunity there but your right: there is no way it would transfer at a 1:1. It would depend on how the skill is earned. The first example you give is kind of just attaching a 'table' to the character that is referenced during NPC social interactions. In that situation there would be no actual 'skill' in using the skill.

    I do like the idea of a skill progressively getting harder and more realistic. Cooking 1: throw the rabbit in the stewpot and get an edible stew. Cooking 10: no idea really how to progress as I don't really cook lol but maybe now you'd have to make sure the rabbit was gutted or something. I thought of that when I was watching Sword Art Online, when Asuna is preparing the super rare class rabbit. I thought it kind of a waste that the only difference between her hard earned skill and a lvl 1 was a number. There was no discernible difference.

    I also prefer to see the character grow organically as opposed to just adding numbers to the difficulty or whathave you. I still think, in the appropriate LitRPG, the skill crossover could be an interesting subplot. Obviously though it must be done with care.
     
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  10. Jay

    Jay Hiatus. LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    I agree completely. That is something that bugged me, even in popular LitRPGs. The MC yells at a merchant in a really silly way and "oh, hey, I got levels in Bargaining!". My thought is always "wtf? That's not bargaining? That's acting like a self-entitled jerk..."

    Now, to be honest, cooking I can see because a lot of people I know can't do anything more complicated than throwing something in the microwave or maybe cooking instant ramen. So if the cooking actually requires some prep and cooking more complex than pushing a button, I could see a player getting levels from that. They might indeed have mostly done take-out and cereal depending on age!:p

    I totally agree though. I like seeing them actually have to practice and learn the skill, even if it's rewarded for a level. It's much more entertaining for me than the MC instantly becoming highly proficient at something complicated in the blink of an eye.
     
  11. RauthrMystic

    RauthrMystic Elf Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    and it gives a reason for the skill increase so it doesn't feel as 'random'.

    I like the idea that if I were stuck in an RPG for years that some of those skills I had worked hard to earn would transfer. Even if it was just something like cooking. you know?
     
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  12. Jay

    Jay Hiatus. LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    I agree. It's interesting to think about how if/when we get to the point of "full immersion" where we're basically in the game, that there would be tons of potential to learn new skills and abilities much faster than in real life. I assume it would be similar to dreaming where time is a bit different so it wouldn't take literal years to learn something in game like it would in the real world, even if it felt real.
     
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  13. RauthrMystic

    RauthrMystic Elf Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    I agree. I think there would be some time dilation too. Mostly b/c our brain is under utilized and if it's not having to use organic 'senses' that would just increase the processing speed even further! I get that skills like 'mana manipulation' might not transfer, but it might help you feel the flow of blood, the flow of air, your own 'electric field' generated by your brain.
     
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  14. RauthrMystic

    RauthrMystic Elf Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    I recently read another LitRPG and while the skills were nothing special, they added a sort of 'perk' system. I think now that i'm writing this that someone may have already mentioned this. But here at a certain level (going from one "level" of skill to the next [novice-apprentice for ex]|)there was a choice to be made on how that skill would further progress. In this book there were only two but the idea is still sound. The 'perks' aren't something you can go back and get. Your next one will be related to the one you chose before. I dont think i'm doing much justice to the ideology here but I hope I've managed to get it across.
     
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  15. Yuli Ban

    Yuli Ban Level 18 (Magician) LitRPG Author Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    To reply to the title: whatever works for the narrative. Basically, whatever the game you're making will use because it's not like they will all have uniform mechanics.
     
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