Stopping the LitRPG Trademark...

Discussion in 'All Things LitRPG' started by Paul Bellow, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. Windfall

    Windfall Level 18 (Magician) LitRPG Author Citizen

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    I might be in the minority... but as a reader, I kinda don't think you can separate an author from their work, and if someone views their own work as junk food, I see no point in consuming that. Or if someone displays immature behaviors, their work will be the same, and therefore I see no point in reading that either. You really can't hide, peeps. When I was 15 I might have thought differently, but now I'm too old for all that bs.

    Tangent-y analogy:

    There was a young musician once who mistakenly thought we weren't going to give him time to rehearse in the concert hall. He started yelling, talking about his 'rights' about 'common practices' and 'professionalism'. Then it turned out he was rehearsing in the wrong rehearsing slot. And then he had to go around apologizing to everyone he yelled at, repeatedly and profusely. He's not a bad person -- just young. I feel the same when I see all these people doing silly things like trademarking. Ultimately they forget the big picture -- about what it's all about to be human, to be part of this world. All they worry about is that they're not going to get their fair share of the world. The thing is: you get to write for a living. You should be grateful. If you want to talk about fair shares -- just open your eyes and look at the rest of the world. There are people in India living off garbage dumps. Have you ever concerned yourself with a thought about their fair share? You're lucky you received enough education to allow you to read and write. You're lucky you live in a place where there's an internet connection. You're lucky you even have time be bothered about issues like trademarks.

    The funny thing is... a real professional musician would just be professional about it. Even if they don't get time to rehearse, they will be good enough that they don't actually need to, or at least can adjust to unexpected circumstances. They know that yelling is not going to win them more friends and more gigs. They know that being upset is going to affect their performance. So they're chill about it. And that's why they're professional musicians.

    Indie authors suffer from not having the groundedness of professional people around them to remind them of these things. They're out alone, so the insecurity monsters run rampage and compel them to do silly things that ultimately just hurt themselves, like engaging in a shouting match with a reader over a review, or trying to trademark something.

    And I'm sure they wonder why trademarking something is such a bad thing? Why there's always so much backlash? Well -- it's because it shows the world how small you are.

    (But the fact that trademarking even exists also shows how small-minded our society is, you know...)
     
  2. CheshirePhoenix

    CheshirePhoenix Crazy Hermit on the Hill LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Editor Aspiring Writer

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    What I really want is for just one of these authors to explain exactly how another author’s success somehow “steals” money from them.
     
  3. Dragovian

    Dragovian Over-enthusiastic Tank wtb Pocket Healer LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen

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    "I am uncomfortable when we are not all about me," I think.

    I still feel that if you have enough of a "brand" for it to matter, readers should be able to remember your name. If people can be "fooled" by a book that sorta kinda looks like it might have been written by that guy, then you aren't really a meaningful brand yet. Git gud.
     
  4. Viergacht

    Viergacht Thunderdragon LitRPG Author Roleplaying Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    If I remember correctly, Dragonslayer was owned by Buena Vista / Disney . . . . I'd like to see this twat go up against Disney lawyers.
     
  5. CheshirePhoenix

    CheshirePhoenix Crazy Hermit on the Hill LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Editor Aspiring Writer

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    Oh man, that would be glorious. It'd be a terrible thing for the genre as a whole, but boy... I don't think there's enough popcorn on the planet for the bystanders to eat while sitting on the sidelines.
     
  6. Jason Maskell

    Jason Maskell Level 11 (Thief) LitRPG Author Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    So a fellow posted this comment in response to MSE's post on 20BooksTo50k

    And was banned for it. He confirmed that he was booted without explanation after that post.

    That kind of heavy-handed bullshit really makes me dislike Facebook groups. They all seem to go that way. Does Anderle have a connection to all this Mastermind-marketing group bullshit?
     
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  7. CheshirePhoenix

    CheshirePhoenix Crazy Hermit on the Hill LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Editor Aspiring Writer

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    I doubt it, other than MSE mentioning him.

    Speaking as a reader, I prefer some separation between paragraphs (and indents!). I like the look of formatting set to first-line indents of .25 inches, line spacing of 1.15, and a carriage return of 1.5. It's easy enough to set that formatting up in Word, and Amazon has already shown that extra spacing doesn't influence their page count algorithm.
     
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  8. Jun

    Jun Level 13 (Assassin) LitRPG Author Citizen

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    Does it cover fiction, specifically downloadable fiction? I hope so.
     
  9. Jay

    Jay Hiatus. LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    From what I remember someone informed the owners of The Destroyer/Remo Williams series about the attempt to copyright The Destroyer. Considering its been around since the 80's at least and has 50+ books that still have a decent following, it will be interesting to see how that goes for MSE.
     
  10. Jun

    Jun Level 13 (Assassin) LitRPG Author Citizen

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    You can submit evidence against it here:
    https://teas.uspto.gov/ccr/teas.service

    I've already done so for both the cover layout and Dragon Slayer filings. I plan do follow through with Destroyer and Tamer as well.
     
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  11. Dragovian

    Dragovian Over-enthusiastic Tank wtb Pocket Healer LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen

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    20BooksTo50K was also deleting conversations regarding Faleena Hopkins' TM. I don't know if they're Mastermind-linked, but they definitely seem to be okay with the spurious TM attempts.
     
  12. Seagrim

    Seagrim Level 18 (Magician) LitRPG Author Citizen

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    Not necessarily that, but, 20to50K isn't very fond of "Drama". The group was started after the major drama of Kboards and, if posts aren't about things involving writing and marketing, they aren't too fond of it.
     
  13. Jun

    Jun Level 13 (Assassin) LitRPG Author Citizen

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    I got banned from 20books for pointing out that there were dragon slayer and the destroyer series before MSE, and noting that it was hypocritical for him to get all high and mighty about "his" intellectual property, when he ripped off trademarked and copyrighted setting details and monsters from Dungeons and Dragons to write his novels.
     
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  14. Jason Maskell

    Jason Maskell Level 11 (Thief) LitRPG Author Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    Ya, another reasonable comment there, but he's one of the protected classes. It doesn't matter how he does it, he makes a lot of money therefore he's one of the 20Books desirables.
     
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  15. Jay

    Jay Hiatus. LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    MSE is probably one of those people that think the Open Game License means "I can use whatever I want and Wizards of the Coast is fine with it". That's not how it works. At all. There are tons of things in D&D that are trademarked and copyrighted which are not free to use.

    For example, you can naturally use dragons since they're in folklore (although it would likely be pressing your luck to have them be all evil chromatics worshipping Tiamat, etc. etc.) but Beholders, Mind Flayers, Slaad, etc. are all trademarked and not allowed to be used in anything but D&D campaigns without express permission. So while you could make a D&D campaign and toss it online that involved Mind Flayers, you certainly can't use them in a book without getting written permission to do so.

    Now granted, you could use Mind Flayers and call them by another name and maybe fudge by, but that's a dangerous game to play. Pun intended.
     
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  16. Jun

    Jun Level 13 (Assassin) LitRPG Author Citizen

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    Exactly and that's what MSE did. It bugs me that more people don't call him out on it.
     
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  17. Jason Maskell

    Jason Maskell Level 11 (Thief) LitRPG Author Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    Did he get C&D by WOTC? Or are all those creatures still in his books?
     
  18. Alexis Keane

    Alexis Keane Level 14 (Defender) Roleplaying Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    Doubt he got C&D-ed... Lion's Quest - in which he used the content - has been out for a while. Also, copyright and trademark law is tricky... you can for instance talk about McDonalds in your book, but your book probably can't be called the McDonalds book... conversely, you cannot have illithid in your books without permission, yet your character who's shown an interest in DnD might think that a monster looks somewhat like an illithid, although the jury is, quite literally, out on that... the long and short of it is that, if you're dumb enough to use someone else's trademark in your book as a feature then run it through an editor versed in trademark law so they can remove it for you... or keep a lawyer, a copy without the infringing content, and a decent amount of money on the side in case you get slammed...
    As for MSE, it's all speculation atm, however, I wouldn't be surprised if the copyright thing was basically a polite way of saying "congratulations, you've reached upper management, now f**k off", I have no doubts that copyright algorithms are being tested, but I doubt it has anything to do with individual items of individual trademark/copyright property apart from lyrics and move scripts in text as smaller than that it gets difficult to assess what is infringement and what is not... furthermore, zon typically removes single books with infringing content, not authors with single books infringing (Just because heavy-handedness is more in the general consciousness doesn't mean zon will ignore SOP except in the most clearcut and extreme examples... amazon is run like a branch of government)...
     
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  19. Jun

    Jun Level 13 (Assassin) LitRPG Author Citizen

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    MSE uses The Underdark, Beholders and the same version of Drow elves that are in D&D (drow or rather trow are from Scandinavian folk lore, but turning them into evil, matriarchal white haired red/purple eyed elves is all D&D). If you look in the OGL The Underdark and Beholders (can’t remember on drow elves) these are on the list of specific items that are forbidden for commercial use.

    It’s not framed in the LQ books as “this reminds me of..” it’s written as “We are going to The Underdark, and we fought a beholder.” Just because mse goes on to say that thousands of fantasy games have done the same thing in his novel doesn’t make it true in the real world.
     
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  20. Tom Gallier

    Tom Gallier Level 15 (Guardian) LitRPG Author Citizen

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    I have to jack a thread, but Jun, your cover for "Cupcake Keep Under Siege" is amazing. Love it.
     
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