Taxing the adventurers blind or not worth it?

Discussion in 'Debates & Discussions' started by Dragon, Mar 4, 2021.

  1. PokemonThug

    PokemonThug Level 17 (Theurgist) Roleplaying Exiles Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    hmm even if the dungeon is found and its "ancient"... meh still in the wastes there should be a few.. probably taxed less maybe..
     
  2. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I just realized I forgot something - those adventurers are providing the Dungeon with a service!!

    They should be paying 25% in VAT, after paying half the loot as an entrance fee. After which there is still the personal income taxes and guild fees.

    I imagine an adventurer coming out of the Dungeon with a gold piece only to be jumped by tax collectors who leave him a silver and eight coppers.
     
  3. Mister Bill

    Mister Bill Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Ha! Higher taxes for foreigners so more people want to join the village!
     
  4. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

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    If you want villagers and more adventurers high taxation just isn’t the way. It never has been. Just Look at California today.
     
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  5. PokemonThug

    PokemonThug Level 17 (Theurgist) Roleplaying Exiles Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    All real adventurers can travel through node roads.. And exit in a different untaxed dungeon. Also u can trade in the labirynth. F.e. trade for potions drink them for free. And u dont trade gold but ingriedients.. Alchemist gains levels u buffs no taxes
     
  6. PokemonThug

    PokemonThug Level 17 (Theurgist) Roleplaying Exiles Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    say u be not basic.

    a high level adventurer group goes to the dungeon for a week and all their loot is given to a random dude.

    then they exit the dungeon without tax.

    the dude exits too through the nexus profesional trail portal outside of the dungeon with all the loot. profit.
     
  7. Mister Bill

    Mister Bill Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I agree. Just funnin’.
     
  8. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

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    You can NOT escape a dungeon without paying your taxes.
     
  9. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    California isn't bleeding a significant portion of its population.

    It was just a joke :)

    What Richter needs is some oldschool common sense. That starts with him setting up a tiny Dungeon city say a tavern, an open market area with a few merchants, a few longhouses turned rowhouses where adventurers can get room and board, a healers hut with "free" services - paid for by the guild which in turn is paid by the adventurers - and a few regulations.

    And of course a generous 60% tax cap on the Dungeon.
     
  10. Mister Bill

    Mister Bill Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Well, they decreased in population recently IIRC. With how many are born each year and immigrate that means a ton left. This is evidenced by the UHaul rates, which I found interesting. You had to pay a ton to go from LA to different states but it was a tenth of the price to go from a nearby state to LA.
     
  11. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

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    You touch my heart!

    As a long time advocate of Ricther creating a dungeon market I second the movement. It would be better for him Financially and for Security purposes. If I were Ricther I wouldn’t want people to visit my village. People immigrating is the only real desirable outcome. Let the Adventurers stay in the dungeon. He doesn’t need anyone with foreign loyalties witnessing the wealth of the village and giving reports of how so few have so much. It would only add fuel to the fires of any conquerors desires. I say use a free room to create a working market place. That would give the appearance that all crafted goods were made in the dungeon while the magic-core made items and potions slowly fill the merchants shelves.

    I still Think it would be better if a new underground community were built. Then use a free entrance to connect it to the dungeon. After which a magic core could be added to the underground community. The free entrance would give direct access to the dungeon market area. The magic core added to an underground community would prevent anyone from entering it unless they were given access by the creator of the community. Then any settlement points earned should go toward moving his core buildings into his underground core community. Only Ricthers sworn villagers could gain access. Yet another layer of protection.

    Three core structures connected to the Dungeon by their own entrance might actually draw bigger and stronger monsters from the labyrinth. Even if the core buildings did drew labyrinth monsters they would need to break into the safe zone of the market before they could break out through the dungeon entrance.

    If the dungeon was destroyed it would give everyone in the marketplace a easy exit. Plus if the dungeon was destroyed the underground community and all it’s wealth would remain.
     
  12. Mister Bill

    Mister Bill Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Hmm. I don’t know that a whole random structure like that would have much going on for a core to upgrade. And why would you connect the core buildings to the dungeon for a small, short time benefit? Because monsters could break out at any moment and they’d go right for those buildings. And then wreck them.
     
  13. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

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    Those are very good questions. I’m not so sure what you mean by a random structure. I think the only trick in using a magic core is expressing the intended use. I believe magic cores sense their surroundings for part of that and I believe the third item also helps.

    I feel like the structures I mentioned are fairly described. Ricther still has a free room or he could build a room in the dungeon. We had been told that safe rooms were very costly to build in a dungeon. That’s why I mentioned either using the free room or he could build/dig one out using workers. If he physically builds one he would still need to pay for the safe room protections. After that either way he could use his core to enlarge the market.

    My other option was to use the free room to build a working market area. Then build a underground network that would connect to the other core buildings. If he used the core on an underground network solely for its expansion it would add growth and another layer of protection.

    Monsters wouldn’t be able to simply smash up a core structure and take its core. Intruding monsters would have to face the dungeon monsters first. Then at some point Ricther would get a call to defend the dungeon. Any monsters that make it through the dungeon would still need to break through the safe room door. After that they would need to force their way out the dungeon exit and into his underground network.

    Why do you think that Ricthers core structures would only offer a small short term affect on the dungeon?

    Honestly my original thoughts were only to further add another layer of security to the Miss village. People would expect to find the greatest of items in a very powerful Dungeon. So selling adventurers core made items only through a dungeon market would be ideal. Any underground structure only granting growth of structure would be awesome. Even with no other magical effects besides the growth expansion. Basically any underground network could be used for housing, storage, shops, garrisons….. Another great affect of a core is that it can’t be used without the owner giving you permission to use it. So if your permission to use it was revoked your @$$ would get thrown right into the Dungeons safe room. Meaning you would only have one way out. Unless you had permission to enter the other core buildings. Then you could exit into the MV.

    Containing the ambient mana radiating off the cores underground should only enrich the area. That would be a permanent effect and would better serve the dungeon. If the cores drew monsters from the labyrinth that should would be a permanent effect as well.
     
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  14. Mister Bill

    Mister Bill Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I like the idea of hiding things to some extent and selling stuff inside the dungeon. I just wouldn’t want a tunnel from the dungeon to the core buildings in the village because super powerful beings from the labyrinth are likely on their way. They’ll go for the deepest parts of the dungeon…unless they sense core buildings through a tunnel to the village (maybe).
     
  15. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

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    O I do agree. First of all they would have to fight their way through the dungeon. Then they would have to break into the market. At that point any thing that breaks through would get hit with dungeon curses and penalties due to its attacks in the violence free shambhala market place. That’s what would make the cost of the room so high. If I’m not mistaken that’s what we were told. That shambhalas are very expensive. (Sorry if I slaughtered the words spelling.) Ricther would not only get a chance to kill better beast but he would also get another chance to defend the dungeon. I also believe that Ricther could deny entry to all beings without his expressed permission to enter a core building. That would force any Labyrinth monster to smash it’s way into his core building. All those things would take time and allow for the dungeon to be defended.

    Personally I would rather lose the core buildings instead of losing the dungeon
     
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  16. PokemonThug

    PokemonThug Level 17 (Theurgist) Roleplaying Exiles Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    Ok say we implement this "pay taxes in Cayman Islands" plan.

    This can be repeated with any professional but for simplicity sake lets say we take an alchemist into the dungeon.

    Alchemist has his portable dragon cauldron potion making set(or any other) and a bag of holding filled with ingredients. So adventurers give rare herbs to the Alchemist and get potions in return. Then at the end of this 7 week dive alchemist either brews new potions and evades taxation or pays taxes on a few rare ingredients he brings back... Can he hide them in the dungeon?!
    end result is having your skills grow massively by making potions,

    Also what about teleportation? say we take an adventurer group into the dungeon and then a teleportation mage comes for a visit, this might, Might be profitable with a dungeon dive to the Labyrinth or any other super profitable dive, because teleportation mage will cost an arm and a leg. Or maybe a teleportation scroll could work..

    Ha we have a teleportation already its a Portal. Actually two portals, well 4.
    3tier portal, portal to the fey realm, nodes, labyrinth... heh who said evading taxes is easy, but far from impossible
     
  17. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

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    You can’t beat the dungeon. The Dungeon automatically collects it’s taxes from All of the loot balls. You can’t open a reliquary without paying taxes. Unless Aleron writes a cheat into the story.

    Unlike the Hall of Elemental Hunters Ricther has his dungeon under control. Ricther has NO need to charge any taxes after people leave his dungeon. Since Ricther has the ability to charge any tax he wants in the Dungeon everything else should be irrelevant to him.

    Taxes derived from a working market would have to be collected from the vendors.

    If I lived in the land I don’t think I would want to adventure in the Hall of Elemental Hunters. The shake down on entry would definitely put me off. It has been mentioned that at times adventurers will attack and kill each other inside the Dungeon. Being shook down on entry and having a list of your personal items left behind could be very bad. It wouldn’t be hard for guards to sell your list of equipment to any of Laws thugs. They would only need to stalk you waiting for the best opportunity to relieve you of your most prized possessions.

    If a Dungeon owner played it well he could draw in all of the regional adventurers with only a small cut in the normal Dungeon tax. Not being set upon by the Kings guard coming and going. Not being shook down and being forced to list your possessions would make a big difference for a lot of people. I do wonder how taxation on items from the greater Labyrinth would work?
     
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  18. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I think the guild would be somewhat particular about not taxing anything apart from loot. There must be some way of discerning what has dropped and what you had with you in. Perhaps a Tax Assessor, a specialization of the thug profession? ;)

    The shakedown in Law is bad. I don't think there is any question that taking half of the loot at the door as an entry fee, followed by guild dues and regular taxes puts a very high burden on the adventurers, to the point where they might have to perform 4 or 5 dives in order to make as much as a single dive without taxation. Maybe more as each dive comes with a cost for repairs, healing, potions, provisions and so on.

    I think the king is fine with that, as he probably ends up making more than double what the adventuring party does on each dive. Without providing them any services in return.

    Of course, in Law you likely have a large market for Dungeon goods, with numerous specialized merchants buying up loot and bringing in special goods from afar that the adventurers want. Along with high level smiths, armorers, alchemists and other guild crafters with access to high level recipes that you simply don't see in the smaller factions. There are likely also any number of fighting styles that you can train in and spellcasters - though that likely comes with a guild tag - that will teach you spells. As an example, Yves is noted as the only place the researchers knows of where runes are actively used. We've seen a few examples of runed gear, so that could be an important monopoly if it stacks with enchanting.

    The king can afford to be greedy if leaving Law means you end up as a second rate adventurer on account of low-level gear and supplies limiting your growth elsewhere in the region.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2021
  19. PokemonThug

    PokemonThug Level 17 (Theurgist) Roleplaying Exiles Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    Drago has some interesting points here, still we have a simple village, we can't invite anyone from Law to MV to "Adventure" or craft or live etc.. for obvious reasons. With all the drawbacks and risks that in tales. But crafters and specialists(even adventuring ones) should be either persuaded or contracted to travel to multiple random places in whatever kingdom and then suddenly be shipped to us "midway or so". Also do these oaths of silence upon their soul or whatever. I would like to see caution here, not an advertisement campaign that "everyone should take a vacation and come to MV for beach sun and margaritas" Though no doubt this will work great because AK decided so.

    Also Richto should make sure that some bad rumors would reach Yves about a ruined village in the forest by the undead.. if you are dead no one will look for you. Maybe even send some ppl back after a "show" of some immigrants getting slaughtered by the undead.. or at least it should look real. But for now we will have plenty of adventurers from the bugbear camp. And most of them will be eaten by lvl 14-15 dungeon.. which should become sentient by this point.

    Still I would seek builder contracts form the Dwarfs and mercenary cotacts.. Richto really should have hired the Troll company.
     
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  20. Mister Bill

    Mister Bill Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I mean, other than wanting more money. Right now the dungeon can only take, what, 10% in tax?
     
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