Tier 2 Beings

Discussion in 'Debates & Discussions' started by SnackBarbarian, Feb 6, 2020.

Tags:
  1. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    96%
    Messages:
    794
    Likes:
    486
    xp:
    596
    LitCoin:
    943,713
    Zorkmid:
    63
    Well they've already shown that multiple professions are possible at tier 1 (enalise the crafter miner)
    Unless you mean for those who are focused, in which case I could see it as a 1 per tier kind of thing. Keeps it balanced while allowing for more power gain. Probably would be some rules about it though, like "if tier 1, can either focus or dual profession" Then at tier two you could focus both of them, or focus one then gain another proffession kind of thing
     
  2. PokemonThug

    PokemonThug Level 13 (Assassin) Roleplaying Exiles Citizen

    8%
    Messages:
    428
    Likes:
    131
    xp:
    426
    LitCoin:
    2,492,288
    Zorkmid:
    166
    Richto just being a basic B***C.
    Still would you really want to encounter something like an aberration in the Dungeon?! Still have to sack..
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
  3. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    58%
    Messages:
    1,528
    Likes:
    695
    xp:
    758
    LitCoin:
    478,860
    Zorkmid:
    152
    I doubt the Dungeon can spawn something like that.
     
  4. Andrew Lynas

    Andrew Lynas Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    82%
    Messages:
    671
    Likes:
    356
    xp:
    682
    Zone:
    UK
    LitCoin:
    1,907
    Zorkmid:
    0
    I was thinking something more along the line of getting something like a Weakened & Reduced version of Flesh Enchanting (or one of the other possible Non-Chosen Specializations) to go along with his Essence Enchanting?
    Although if it is possible it'll probably be pretty High Tier.
     
  5. PokemonThug

    PokemonThug Level 13 (Assassin) Roleplaying Exiles Citizen

    8%
    Messages:
    428
    Likes:
    131
    xp:
    426
    LitCoin:
    2,492,288
    Zorkmid:
    166
    We could build a room for it..
     
  6. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

    49%
    Messages:
    727
    Likes:
    130
    xp:
    549
    LitCoin:
    1,399,669
    Zorkmid:
    86
    I was thinking about this the other day. Krom is a professed Smith. From the very beginning Krom had been overly excited about a magical forge. Krom states that a magic forge could learn enchantments that would allow any Smith to learn those enchantments in return. So wouldn’t that alone push all Smiths with the right infinities to become a professional smith and a professional enchanter?
     
    AndyJ likes this.
  7. PokemonThug

    PokemonThug Level 13 (Assassin) Roleplaying Exiles Citizen

    8%
    Messages:
    428
    Likes:
    131
    xp:
    426
    LitCoin:
    2,492,288
    Zorkmid:
    166
    I bet in the Land's terms your second profession would come when you have reached age of 30-40 years +-.. so a lot of time to get two professions.. and a ton of resources at least for the enchanter would be needed.
    How would you practice enchanting in the Land? How often? how would you get the crystal? how would you get enchantments? souls?

    If you are alone that would be close to impossible.. apprenticing in a master enchanters workshop perhaps..
     
  8. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    58%
    Messages:
    1,528
    Likes:
    695
    xp:
    758
    LitCoin:
    478,860
    Zorkmid:
    152
    You buy the crystal.
    Crystal gardens are rare but crystal can be grown rapidly using soul stones. Soul stones in turn can be made from random rocks as long as you have the spell. A fish or chicken would provide a poor soul. Crystal is sure to be expensive. But not outside the price range of most craftsmen, especially not when even a single low-tier enchantment could double the price of a weapon

    I'd assume merchants catering to craftsmen would have some. If you are outside a major city you might have to travel to the nearest crystal garden possessor to stock up.

    Depends on how much you buy - i'd buy enough for at least a year if I had to go on a journey to get it and I had the money to pay.

    Enchantments are bought in the dwarven way - through hard, loyal and good service.

    Soulstones you'd need to seek out a mage for.


    I have to agree. It makes a lot of sense that eventually someone with the correct affinities would seek to become a professional in these synergetic crafts. Crafting would definitely also be something i pursued, just apprentice gives an extra 25% enchantment potential to all you produce.
     
    Captain BlackJack likes this.
  9. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    96%
    Messages:
    794
    Likes:
    486
    xp:
    596
    LitCoin:
    943,713
    Zorkmid:
    63
    Assumes they have enough affinity to reach 45, but yes it seems to be that a core building like the forge would push smiths that way.

    You have found: Long Post of Rambling

    We still need a real answer from Aleron about whether you can have more than one profession of the same type
    Examples of what I mean by this:
    1) Craft style Professions ; Smithing/ Enchanting/ Crafting/ Alchemy (enchanting could even be considered a back end profession here in that it complements the other 3)
    2) Combat style Professions ; Warrior/ Mage/ Rogue
    3) Gathering; Farming/ Mining/ Herb Lore/
    4) Etc.
    Smithing and Crafting seem as though they would have a bunch of similar talents where as smithing and alchemy seem as though they would pretty much be entirely separate when it comes to talents.
    The simple answer seems to be yes, but it also turns into a quagmire of wasted points down the line. Like smithing and enchanting for example. Krom purchased a talent giving items he makes more enchantment spaces, while Richter has one that allows anything he enchants more enchanting space. Enchanting clearly has the better talent here, even though its synergistic with the smithing one, because Richter gets his 10% no matter what while Krom has to be involved in the smithing of the object for him to get the same bonus Richter does. Pretty minute problem and of course professing in both if they stay separate will allow you to smith items then enchant them with a bunch more enchantment spaces.... But would it be worth the combined 20 TPs when you could dodge an entire profession and let someone else take on the extra TP cost to get a similar result? Perhaps if you are alone, but is the combined synergy enough to outweigh progressing further in just 1? Something like that could possibly be a combined talent with reduced overall cost.

    I think a better solution might be that if you should meet the requirements for Professions of the same category (and after passing your trial), the overall Profession name is altered to encompass both (or more should tertiary skills reach the point). our talent tree morphs slightly to encompass both professions' talents, over lapping where they meet (I'm not very geometrically minded but it's magic anyway so pretend it works) and while you still have access to your old talents there is an option to merge them with the new talents where applicable, for a greater overall effect. Perhaps for a much reduced price you could upgrade the pre-purchased talent a new upgraded talent that encompasses all the available professions.
    Ex: Say you doubled down like you suggest for Smithing and Enchanting. First you got the smithing talent that allows for +10% to enchantment space to things you smith yourself for say 10 TP, and then later added the enchanting profession. New profession could be something like "Magic Smith" (Names obviously would need some shopping). So instead of 10% to things you smith and 10% to every item regardless separately for 20 TP total; you could gain: +10% to every item you enchant, +10% to items you make (allows others to do enchanting) and for things you both smith and enchant +30% to enchantment space for 15 TP total, where as separately you'd technically only get +21% total. (Ex: item has base 30 enchantment spaces: 30*0.1+30=33 ------> 33*0.1+33=36.3 ------> 36.3-30=6.3 ------> 6.3/30=0.21*100=21%).

    Kind of like how Richter's Tier 2 Personal Touch Talent lets him do more with powder he makes with his Crystal Touch Talent than with just any old powdered crystal.
     
  10. Andrew Lynas

    Andrew Lynas Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    82%
    Messages:
    671
    Likes:
    356
    xp:
    682
    Zone:
    UK
    LitCoin:
    1,907
    Zorkmid:
    0
    It could also be that if a person has multiple Professions/Specializations that have Talents that have the same or similar effects that if you buy one then you might get either a discount when buying the same from other Professions, or in some cases get it for free if they are similar enough, or you could buy them at full price but be given an option of some type of merging that gives a small boost to them?
     
  11. AndyJ

    AndyJ Level 8 (Thug) Exiles Citizen

    98%
    Messages:
    40
    Likes:
    36
    xp:
    199
    LitCoin:
    3,006,825
    Zorkmid:
    199
    Learning the enchantments may not give any skill XP so they won't level from it.

    Also, they may end up with a ton of enchantments but not enough affinity in Enchanting to use them.
     
    Captain BlackJack likes this.
  12. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

    49%
    Messages:
    727
    Likes:
    130
    xp:
    549
    LitCoin:
    1,399,669
    Zorkmid:
    86
    As the learn those enchantments they might not get any exp as they learn them. That would increase their intelligence. As their intelligence rises and the try to use those learned enchantments they would gain experience.
     
  13. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    58%
    Messages:
    1,528
    Likes:
    695
    xp:
    758
    LitCoin:
    478,860
    Zorkmid:
    152
    Ok so i've cut out the part I take the most issue with ;)
    Do feel free to bite my ass off i've carved something important out that changes the meaning of what you said.

    1)
    Talent point generattion :)

    With two professions you get double the number of profession quests. For most crafters, their main source of talent points is profession quests, they do not level rapidly as a fighter or mage would. This means that rather than a second profession costing you points, it gives you options to earn more.

    When you do level its likely you also get talent points for your second profession.

    2)
    Two professions and seperate talentpoint pools :)

    To avoid someone having multiple professions that they use to farm talentpoints from levelling, keep the talent point pools seperate. That also avoids Richter powerlevelling other professions using his exp trade talent.
     
  14. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    96%
    Messages:
    794
    Likes:
    486
    xp:
    596
    LitCoin:
    943,713
    Zorkmid:
    63
    I did overlook the extra profession quests. Slow and steady ftw. Just as a note though I'm a huge proponent for a limitation either by the Focus Theory or the 4ish-Type Theory (combat, craft, gather, misc) that have been brought up to avoid all of what my previous post was about

    It would do both, unless you don't put points back into the profession, but then you only get the base skill bonus to whatever it is, which long runs seems wasteful.

    I'm not real keen on separate TP pools, though I can see the appeal. (side note: Richter talks to Beyan about hoarding TPs from Alchemy to later put into Mage, doesn't mean it's confirmed possible since Richter has asked dick all about how professions actually work but it is there and Beyan didn't correct him). To many points systems already without splitting the TPs further. But because I'm curious, how would separate work? If he gets 100 tps per level, now that he's tier 2, would he get 100 per profession? Or would he just get the extra +15 or so for having 100% affinity in it? Would there be universal TPs and allocated TPs?

    I don't think his conversion would really be that bad. He pays a cost in accumulated XP with an XP penalty on regained XP, delaying his level progress and while he has minimized that cost a lot, it's still because he previously invested the initial points to do so. He's invested 350 TPs on it so far which would boggle most professionals, I see no reason it shouldn't be allowed to continue.

    Alternately to all of this we could just limit the possibilities. Something even limitless can't break because think about it. There are as of now 22 professions in the Mist Village that Richter doesn't have. Not that Richter would go and really get them all because his attention span is shite, but if he could that would literally be world breaking. If instead there was a hard limit, either through the Focus theory, or the 4-ish-Type theory or similar, it could still be uber powerful but within the realm of really only something that someone with limitless or unlimited time and access to things like a quickening could really accomplish.
     
  15. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    58%
    Messages:
    1,528
    Likes:
    695
    xp:
    758
    LitCoin:
    478,860
    Zorkmid:
    152
    Tier 1 Richter

    Tier 2 Richter
    So I went looking in book 8 because 100 tp per level felt like way too much

    He gets 30 chaos points for being a chaos lord, an additional 10 for the enchanting profession and 5 for being a specialist. A second profession would bring him to 55, maybe less if it decreases (say to 8 per level) for a second profession. After grinding a skill to level 45 and spending a month with an arbiter i'd say you deserve the extra 10 talent points per level though. That's many years labor for most people.

    Since a big chunk of tp comes not from the profession + specialization, but from race I have to agree its likely a single pool. That's backed up by the conversation with Beyan @ShoughtLoud references.

    This means Richter should be able to use his exp trade talent to buy talent points for use with other professions. This would slow his level progression down to a crawl, but it also means Richter has insane potential.


    I do think you'll be limited to a single combat/ mage profession but we shall see on noncombat professions.


    I fear the theory that you can only choose a profession every 10 level doesn't hold. At the very least you can choose a second noncombat profession before reaching level 20 as Enalise is only level 17.

    For combat professions though, a choice every 10 levels would make sense and limit combat professions a little.
     
    ShoughtLoud likes this.
  16. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    96%
    Messages:
    794
    Likes:
    486
    xp:
    596
    LitCoin:
    943,713
    Zorkmid:
    63
    sorry mixed up tps and cps
     
  17. Andrew Lynas

    Andrew Lynas Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    82%
    Messages:
    671
    Likes:
    356
    xp:
    682
    Zone:
    UK
    LitCoin:
    1,907
    Zorkmid:
    0
    I want to know if it's possible to get both a Non-Combat Profession and a Combat Profession in the same thing? For instance could someone become a Minstrel then later also become a Bard, or even just upgrade to being one?
     
    ShoughtLoud likes this.
  18. Dragon

    Dragon Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    58%
    Messages:
    1,528
    Likes:
    695
    xp:
    758
    LitCoin:
    478,860
    Zorkmid:
    152
    Well i'd imagine you could. A ministrel could have a lot of talents that would indirectly boost the combat oriented talents of a bard.

    Just as physical professions with talents that boost endurance could be good support for a combat profession. A miner for example would likely gain endurance/ strength boosting talents.

    Though maybe you would need a second seperate musical skill at level 45 for the second profession?

    One thing i'd think was awesome was if having certain combinations of professions unlocks combined professions. For example, i've posted about the option of herbalist + alchemist + mage(any element) becoming Witch (at least as an option). Stronger and more talents, but perhaps it only counts as 1 profession so you lose out on 20 talent points per level as a balance?
     
    ShoughtLoud likes this.
  19. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    96%
    Messages:
    794
    Likes:
    486
    xp:
    596
    LitCoin:
    943,713
    Zorkmid:
    63
    So convoluted, I just want AK to finally let Richter talk to someone intelligent about this :(
     
    Captain BlackJack likes this.
  20. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

    49%
    Messages:
    727
    Likes:
    130
    xp:
    549
    LitCoin:
    1,399,669
    Zorkmid:
    86
    I think it’s time for Ricther share more information with his closets of advisors. He should call them all in close the door and bust open a bottle of his moonshine. Once he has everyone a three finger shot he should start to open up. I think Futen needs to be there as well. A meeting of the minds could really help Ricther a lot. He needs to use their years of knowledge and wisdom to guide him. Even though Hisako has a book on core building at this point I doubt he will even look at it befor using his magic core.
     




Share This Page