Cores, Potions, & Everything Magical

Discussion in 'Debates & Discussions' started by Captain BlackJack, Sep 30, 2020.

  1. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I think we disagree on what a library is in this context. You are thinking of a book repository, thereas i am pretty sure Aleron is going for a place for scholars, mages and craftsmen to work on furthering the theoretical underpinnings of their crafts. A place of research into new knowledge AND ancient lore.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
  2. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

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    O do I ever agree.

    You stated this perfectly “ancient empires had an abundance of cores, using them almost trivially”. I could definitely see the Tefinim being from the time of the gods easily. The fast reaction to the crypt mistress spoke to me very loudly as far as the her alignment goes. I would only think that the vigor of one’s alignment would have been much more furious during the time of the gods. I only imagine everyone had to be a zealot of some sort during those days. Personally I can only see the golden pillar dungeon as a Tefonim structure and tomb. The only thing that throws of the age of the tomb would be the age of the Dungeon. Of course at that point one needs to ask are the age of the dungeons counted from when it actually became a dungeon, the time the structure was actually built, or is it counted from the last time it has been explored. We might get the answer once Ricther connects the long dead adventurer from that tomb with some temporary family or kingdom. If it were my work it would definitely go back to the last exploration of the site if it were completely cleaned out and reclaimed. Otherwise some dungeons continue their existence by spawning new beast or by becoming re-inhabited.
     
  3. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

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    What makes you think it was a proving ground for a new Lord of the Mist?
     
  4. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Hard challenges, but mostly in intelligence and spirit. None were designed to crush.

    The trap challenge and the treasure challenge: Intelligence and skill

    The challenge of the past faced by Sion and the double statue test faced by Richter: wisdom. Sion needed to accept the past in order to move on, which was far harder for him than any combat encounter before or since. While he did get rewarded for it by an increase in stats, the true reward was learning to let go.

    The undead spirits were made vulnerable by the pillar that anyone who solved the prior room proper would have access to. I'd call that a classic puzzle test.

    The demoness I think was a wild card, an intruder that wasn't planned for.

    I see the remaining encounters as challenges meant for a prince or princess to face. A harsh way of getting rid of the unfit and those who believe raw power is what matters.

    Most of the challenges couldn't be solved by having a high level or fancy gear (unless you were grossly overlevelled for the location). Intelligence, wisdom and knowledge was the way forward.
     
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  5. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

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    Crafter?

    You mean like a word crafter or a word smith?
    Perhaps a book binder?

    Aleron is definitely talking about a library there is no doubt. He didn’t say industrial research center. He has mentioned a school and a Library. To your credit man people go to Libraries to do research while in school. Although the knowledge researched in that environment is extracted from books containing knowledge that has already been obtained.
    So what gives you the feeling it was a challenge for a Prince?

    Why don’t you think those challenges were set for anyone that broke in?

    Personally, I only see it as a Tomb that had become inhabited. I envision the Tefonim as a race with a predisposition good or lawful good alignment. I have also made the presumption that they are similar to the people of Atlantis in that the seem to have been very advanced for the time. Then they all but disappeared.

    All of those challenges that were built into the structure of the Tomb I see as a test. That test was designed only for those with the same quality of character that the Tefonim believed to be good would pass.

    I can’t help but to continually recall the wall built in the dungeons aquifer. The one where Ricther found the adventurers body. Why would you have a stairway with a wall lined with traps? Why would that be built on the opposite side of the cavern containing the aquifer. Why would it have another layer of defense with the lightening crystals close to the entrance of the tomb propper? I still feel as if their is more to the story. To me it seems as if the wall and the stairway were to another perhaps larger structure set off from the tomb?
    Could the water in there been another form of defense? In many societies water is seen as a spiritually clean substance thus the unclean can not cross it. We know there was more to the structure because they had chose to return instead of continuing on. I only wonder what might the Tefonim tomb be built by. With the traps on the stairs, the span of water, and the lightening traps it seems like they were securing the area for more then a small treasure chest.
     
  6. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    No, I mean craftsmen generally. We know Krom has some theoretical knowledge of metallurgy and advanced forging techniques, as do many of the other smiths. The same is true for the other craftsmen. They all have knowledge they are loath to share. An understandable but dangerous sentiment that can cripple the village down the road.

    If Richter is smart he wants to push them into writing down that knowledge and make it accessible through the library. That tradition has to be established early when there is little truly valuable proprietary knowledge, not years down the road when people will fight ferociously to guard the knowledge they have accumulated through great effort. At the moment the kingdom is young and most of the craftsmen are either unique or have a couple competitors at most, all of whom draw a salary from the royal purse. Their resistance to sharing their knowledge is at the lowest point it will ever be.

    I see it as a place to gather the knowledge they already have and add to as they learn more.

    Research bonuses, knowledge skills growing faster along with faster accumulation and understanding of knowledge seems a given.

    In addition if I was Richter the library wouldn't stand alone. It would merely be the first step towards a center of knowledge as well as a school of learning.

    Edit:

    A real library is much more than the books written down, it has primary sources aplenty to help with research. A student will only see the finished books, but behind the scenes historians and scholars are working with dozens of texts, observations and experts in various fields. Presenting the knowledge already acquired in an easily understandable format is a huge challlenge.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
  7. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Because there was a primary entrance that only the Master of the POP could open? That indicates the place was meant for them.

    The only person who snuck in had to come down a waterfall used a ring of water breathing.

    Anyway I don't think it really matters whether its designed to test the character of all who enter or just the Master and his companions, as well as anyone the Master chooses to send into them.


    The water cavern could be an entrance to a larger area, but it could also be a distraction, part of a labyrinthine structure. To me it makes sense that the place is a proving ground and part of my reasoning is the water cavern.
     
  8. Andrew Lynas

    Andrew Lynas Level 17 (Theurgist) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    What Richter should do is go back and have a good look in the Lightning/Water Cavern for the way the Skeleton actually got into that Cavern, because it obviously wasn't by the method that Richter got into it.
     
  9. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    It had a ring of water breathing and there is a water fall. Its possible it came in that way and would have left through the drain.
     
  10. AndyJ

    AndyJ Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Citizen

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    The dungeon could have reset after a certain period of time using ambient magic or enchantments.
     
  11. darkenedstar

    darkenedstar Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

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    Doubtful hysako (i think) was rather clear on the fact that non- ‘D’ungeons don’t do that.
     
  12. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Most of those are old ruins though.

    In this case maybe the place of power is maintaining the place?
     
  13. Andrew Lynas

    Andrew Lynas Level 17 (Theurgist) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I think that the Fish Ring basically allows you to Hold Your Breathe for an additional 3(2?) Minutes rather then truly allowing you to breathe UnderWater like a true Water Breathing Spell. So using it to get through Underground Water ways would be rather reckless unless you knew beforehand exactly how long the distance you would have to travel in it. But there might be a short underwater passage that he didn't see in the cavern though, or a Hidden Door, after all he couldn't see Hidden Passageways at that time.
     
  14. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    If you are desperate you might just roll the die regardless.

    Smart trick, probably not what Aleron thought up.
    He could simply have had a summon scout the waterways until he felt confident there was a way for a human to get through without drowning. We know from HM that if you cast a summoning spell again while a summon is active you resummon that being to your side. That is a really useful way to explore unknown rooms and locations, effectively a recall function.
     
  15. darkenedstar

    darkenedstar Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

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    More likely everything was a function of whatever building the magic core had built. If the dungeon had reset in someway before.
     
  16. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

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    Unless the doors magically rest. After all weren’t they all magical doors? One made of bone another turned to butterflies. I do believe there is another hidden entrance why else have a stair case booby trapped. Why was their a wall built against the staircase?
    Did it actually say that guy came in via the waterfall? I don’t think there is any way the aquifer was built as a distraction. With all those traps and Barriers it seems more like another entrance or exit.
    I don’t think that is really applicable this location was that type of dungeon. It wasn’t either a young dungeon nor a grown dungeon of the living possibly sentient type. This location I believe was more a still functional tomb that had been partially explored and inhabited. The Tomb it’s self being inhabited by the crypt mistress could have been said to be a lair or it could have been called a dungeon. Although it wasn’t the living magical dungeon type.

    I do believe that the Tefonim had the ability and power to do many things. They were so powerful that magic cores seem to be nearly trivial in power to them. Who knows the magic core in the column could have been resetting the doors and other traps. The core could have powered the lightening crystals as well.

    As always Aleron leaves us with more questions then answers. All we can do is wonder how it actually worked unless Ricther returns to investigate it.
     
  17. Mister Bill

    Mister Bill Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    What if he could combine the core with the dungeon without sacrificing it to the dungeon?
     
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  18. AndyJ

    AndyJ Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Citizen

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    Maybe combining it with the Dungeon Heart would do something, but he'd need a third item as the variable.
    What do you think that it would do?
    • Super rank up of the Dungeon?
    • Make it a mini-labyrinth?
    • Give him drastically more control over the Dungeon since he's using its Heart?
     
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  19. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    If it worked? Hmm

    Your Dungeon has Ranked up to a hybrid core/heart Dungeon. Level reset to 1. All prior bonuses retained. Greatly increased levelling requirements must be met to level your Dungeon.

    Bonuses
    25% more loot and exp.
    100% higher spawn rate for monsters and monster lairs
    +20% to average monster pack size
    +10% increased tax cap
    + 1000% Dungeon floor size

    Dungeon floor passage requirement ability unlocked. The Dungeon, the keeper and the Master can now place requirements for passing through a given floor beyond finding a passage leading below.

    Warning: Risk and reward. This ability is on the monitored list. For each requirement there must be compensation equivalent to the increased risk or difficulty, as determined by your local arbiter. You have been warned.

    Dungeon species experimentation ability unlocked, giving a slight chance (0.003%) chance that a newly spawned creature will be an entirely new creation from combining two or more species. This hybrid will henceforth be spawnable as a new species. This is a passive ability
    .
    Warning: Most combined species are weaker than their component species but cost more to spawn due to their random nature.

    Dungeon species refinement ability unlocked. This ability allows the Dungeon keeper to make alterations to known species diagrams. This costs 20.000 DP per alteration and is considered an advanced ability.
     
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  20. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

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    I think that’s possible. But it won’t happen.
     
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