Hat tip to the fine folks at the LitRPG subreddit... Basically, as the thread title suggests... do you read ALL the stats in LitRPG? There's some good discussion at the link above, but I'd like to hear from our members too.
I'm reading the answers at Reddit, and I have to say I'm amazed (so far) with how many people who say the stats aren't all that important or aren't implemented well.
Yes and no. I always pay attention to special properties of items such as life stealing, granting some kind of ability that may actually come into the story, etc. In the early stages of the book I pay loose attention to what kind of stats the character is focusing on so I can get a sense of what build they are going for, and the rest I tune out. I listen to most of my books on audible, so sitting through pages of stats in spoken word can get a bit mind numbing.
most of the time I do. if I find myself loosing interest in the stats in a book it generally means the author and his story is loosing me. You have to find the right balance of stats and mechanics to dialog, character and story and the stats need to actually mean something. I remember one particular story and i enjoyed almost all of it so don't get me wrong. But at the beginning the MC has like all of his stat points put into just one stat and like ones in everything else including all his physical stats. He runs into a wolf right off the bat who is higher level than he is and yet he manages to run from it, climb a tree, and then not too long after that defeat the wolf. That was jarring to me because the guy shouldn't really have been able to do any of those things with his stats set the way they were. IMO. Heck if I recall rightly for some reason his backpack/storage was actually completely full and he was even over encumbered at the time.
I'll have to admit that I've been thrown out of a story because the stats were off or the properties were wrong. One book had a guy level up but not spend his points at one point. Then the next time he leveled up, it did not report the extra points as being there, yet it had never told me what he had spend them on. Bugged me. Multiple spots in Kong and other books I've been extremely bugged by stats or properties changing from one spot to the next, or somebody not using an ability they just had a few moments ago that would come in real handy. That said, if the story is good enough, it will wash right over all the stuff and I won't even notice much. I'm gonna bet I'll be more crazed about getting my stats right than my readers will care about it.
I've noticed this too at times, and I don't even pay that close of attention. As a general rule I only list item stats once unless they change, but I did change quest details a few times while I was writing and I kept having to go back with Cntrl+F to make sure they all matched.
I have noticed that in a couple of books there have been mistakes. One I read recently, there was a stat increase in the chapter, this was shown accurately at the end of that chapter. There was another increase in the next chapter, but the stat table was the unaltered one from the end of the previous chapter. I actually went back to compare the stat tables, to confirm the error. Not sure which book it was, but shouldn't that have been picked up in the proofing and beta reading? In this genre, I find errors in stats just as annoying as spelling and grammar mistakes, and I give very few books less than 3 stars, but I have actually given the odd 1 and 2 star reviews, and yes, those type of mistakes would contribute to that, but it would need a poorly written story and /or plot as well.
That bugs me, too - I read one book where the MC kept putting all his points into everything but Charisma. He should have been repulsive, but nope, he managed to be the leader of the other characters and even had a couple girls panting after him. Why even bother to make Charisma a stat if it has no impact?
Several disjointed thoughts on stats: - I only like stats when I understand them, and I only like stats when they actually mean something. This means I like it when the characters, say, think in long paragraphs about which stats they want to spend their points on. So, authors need to make sure their stats do something interesting. - That said, you can only do "Hmmm, I think I'll put 1 in X and put 2 in Y, and another 1 in Z, because they are all useful" so many times before it becomes repetitive. - Lower numbers are better for readers, because they are easier to understand. The difference between 5 and 6 is easier to understand than the difference between 87 and 88. I'm all for LitRPG stories that are on the lower end of numbers. Have the max level be, say, 12 -- and each level will feel more significant than the characters finally reaching level 2379 Yay! - The more I like the character, the more patience I have with their stat tables. - I wish authors would spend time on doing 'harmonization' exercises with stats, items, classes, abilities and make sure that everything is balanced. There shouldn't be a 'best in slot'. People who choose to spend +5 in Charisma will need to be able to progress the same 'amount' as people who choose to spend +5 in Strength, or Intellect. The progress can be in different areas, but the 'advantage' or 'reward' for doing so must feel the same. - I can totally understand the idea of "stat tables as aesthetics" -- like when authors put them there but you're supposed to simply skim, and it does give the RPG feel to the story. However, the author might need to hint that this is the case. - If people can min-max, think about what other characters have done with their stats and have them affect the plot/gameplay/encounters in some way. For example, why wouldn't someone max out Strength, and then have his guildies just hold people down while he one-shots them? Also, when characters choose to spend points on something, they need to sacrifice something else -- MC included. - And a personal note: please, please have the characters have a reaction to increased stats. I love stuff like "Oh, wow! Glad I spent the last two points in Strength -- look at how hard I can hit these wolves now!" moments. Or even experimental thoughts, like "Oh, no, my minion is dying too fast against these witches -- I need to spend some more points on magical defense for my minion!" and then, afterward, have the MC actually do this, or give them a shield, if the choice comes up, or something. Not just "Okay, now I have option A, B, C... I'll go with A (because plot demands)". It's much better to have decisions be something like "Okay, now I have option A, B, C... Ooooh, I want A so bad, but actually right now I think I need B, because I need to survive the witches in this zone, so I guess A can wait." Then have the MC work for A and then go get A later -- or maybe change their mind regarding A because different things pop up, etc. It just makes the overall process feel... more organic.
Personally, I just kind of scan over stats for the most part, particularly if it's long rambling charts that constantly get listed. Even worse if they have some weird trait and never explain what the heck that particular trait or whatever is for? For example, I'm reading a book now that's actually quite good, but for some reason they have 'Adrenaline' as a sort of energy pool. Now, after a few combat scenes I figured out it was what 'powered' the special abilities, but that's never explained so it was just a bit confusing at first. The same book also has Will, Wisdom, and Intellect, but no real explanation of what each is really for? Now, granted, the game setting basically boosts the stats you use so the character isn't picking where points for them go, but it would have been nice for a quick explanation of what each of the 8 stats do. Like I can guess, but sometimes something happens and I'm like "Oh, I thought that would be this stat. Huh." when it mentions an unexpected stat being part of it. Otherwise a very nice LitRPG, but I had to sort of figure things out because the author skipped over telling about that sort of thing to talk about tons of different races (that so far haven't even really figured into the story at any point). I also agree that smaller numbers tend to be better because it's easier to visualize and easier for people to see improvement. It's also nice if it's explained if the stats are universal (as in 15 strength is really strong for anyone) or if it's just the character's potential (as in a max of 10 strength means that's the strongest that particular character can be but not the highest possible strength for everyone). I say this because I've seen several books where the MC has a much lower stat than another character, but still beats them in Agility/Strength/whatever. So it makes no sense unless stats are a measure of personal ability, not just general ability.
That's a flaw in the genre. It's harder to write, say, a Raistlin Majere than it is to write a Batman (basically infinitely rich, infinitely intelligent, etc), so it becomes more "Who's Stats Are They, Anyway? A game where the stats are all made up, and the numbers don't matter." That said, I wonder if it's a matter of authors catering to an audience they don't quite understand, or if it's a case of strictly "crunchy" LitRPG being something that readers only think they're interested in. I may be a bit biased here, since I edit it, but the Apocalypse Gates novels by our very own DJ Schinhofen handles stats fairly well - especially the more ephemeral ones, like charisma, where the main character actually suffers for having a low stat there.
No. IMHO, the stats matters only in games. The plot itself is what really matters in books. When an author weaves way too many character attributes and skills into the story, there a good chance of the author’s messing something up or forgetting about relationship between the protagonist’s stats and his or her actual abilities. Like Viergacht have already mentioned, the MC can neglect the Charisma stat altogether but nevertheless be a perfect leader. So yeah.
That's always a problem in games that quantify mental stats, though, and it goes all the way back to D&D - how do you play a character who's smarter than you? Or more/less charismatic? The physical stats, I'll grant, are inexcusable. Characters with low dexterity, for example, shouldn't be champion obstacle course runners any more than those with low strength should be able to lift mountains with one hand and castles with the other, while having an entire ocean stored in their backpack.
So I read exclusively audio so I might offer a different perspective as the stats as athstetics thing dose not come in and skimming is hard so i rarely do it unless its going on for way to long or happens too much. So the biggest immediate problem for me is when an author feels the need to write down every single stat when the character wants to check one stat or a set of stats if the character leveled his intelligence just tell me he got plus one no need to list every point he had there after its redundant and no game would do it so why should a book if you get an extra item say so. The only time a character should pull up there full stat sheet is when there checking over there stats and leveling up. If you want a good example of this read Ritualist by Dakota Krout the MC rarely if ever pulls up stats however stats are frequently mentioned this leads to an understanding of whats happening with his character without the overload of a bunch of meaningless information that doesent actualy have any bareing on the story. As mentioned earlier with numbers people start to group numbers thats another thing Ritualist does better then most in regards to stats(minor spoilers) when the MC starts out he has really low scores in some stats so for example with low con he cant even attack a creature with a sword because his stamina runs out and he hurts himself later when he gets his con past that level there is a scene in which his body which is frequently refered to as skeletal fills out and he says he no longer looks like a sick child and instead looks like a sick adult things like this that make stats feel real are incredibly important and chunking stats together aswell. As another example when his charisma stat goes up after he takes a bath he realises people were avoiding him as when you arent charasmatic you might not notice things like that. stats are just numbers they dont mean anything unless given context so give them a context the difference between 30 and 50 dmg means nothing when all the enemys have exactly 50 HP but the difference between 50 and 51 is MASSIVE this rule goes the doubbley for books as does for games because the reader cant picture the complex number interactions that happen in larger battles. [TLDR] So in summary make stats mean something and don't relist stats every time you use them only show pertenant information also use understandable numbers not high numbers better to add achievements that do nothing then ones that add 5 dmg to a 683 dmg player. I actualy kind of get bothered by skill update messages that are overly long for the same reason although thats definitely a preference thing.
I'm going to put a conversation in my book between one character who is upping his INT for the Mana boost and another who isn't. The INT character will start using math to justify a certain strategy and the other character is going to be surprised and impressed. "When did you take Algebra?" Long story, but the character never would have. Anyway, I totes agree that the stats need to matter to the character's actual behavior. That said, I've got to reconcile why a goblin with an overall low CHA is able to persuade other goblins because PLOT. I'm thinking of throwing a special ability on him called something like "One of Us" that says his CHA is X points higher to his own species. Don't know though. It might be an ability that I give to all monster humanoids actually. It would kind of make sense. Their culture is different enough from Human/Elf/Dwarf cultures... I mean seriously, can you imagine a persuasive troll or ogre? Hmm, that could be hilarious actually...
"I calculate that this strategy has a 33.33% chance - repeating, of course - to work" "Hey guys, let's DO THIS!"
