Dwarven Mine

Discussion in 'Debates & Discussions' started by Dragon, Feb 1, 2021.

  1. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Citizen

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    And you don’t think the regions they have moved through makes a difference?

    Personally, I don’t think many would fight them harder then the sprites.
     
  2. Mister Bill

    Mister Bill Level 12 (Rogue) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    She was trapped because of the snowstorm.
     
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  3. Anthav

    Anthav Level 6 (Footpad) Exiles Citizen

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    Something I thought might happen within the Ogre city is that it was formerly a dwarven city and there's a lot of dwarf slaves inside and Richter convinces them to rise up and take the city back thus establishing another village under the MV, probably giving a STR bonus as a result. This could tie into the axe he found and reestablishing a major Dwarven kingdom in the mountain, although if it gets to big he'll have to worry about a revolt in the future. Given the bonus for the Kindiir I can see him wanting to meet/establish other racial settlements to expand on the MV power and I'm sure breaking into kingdom status will require X number of villages and cities to be under his banner.
     
  4. Dragon

    Dragon Level 18 (Magician) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I don't see how the regions they have moved through has much relevance to this.

    The sprites would fight hard. But they wouldn't keep fighting back even when the battle is clearly lost, that kind of stubbornness is a dwarf trait.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2021
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  5. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Citizen

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    The regions they moved through would definitely have a HUGE influence on the types of people the cross. I don’t think you would capture many eskimos in South Africa.
     
  6. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Citizen

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    That’s close to what I had thought only Orcs instead of dwarves. I think Ricther will pick up the kingless dwarves that live in loose hill tribes. They need the unification for protection.
     
  7. Dragon

    Dragon Level 18 (Magician) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Orcs are probably relatively good warriors compared to goblins, hobgoblins and bugbears. More in the raiding business than the large-scale battle business would be my guess, but we don't know that. We do know that dwarves train their elites hellishly hard from a young age and we can likely assume they have the best armor and gear around. They would be weak on magic for their level as two of their five statpoints are locked into relatively useless physical stats.

    Orcs are bigger, stronger, and more prone to raging with about the same magical ability. At least if Aleron goes for the standard 5ed orc.

    As for uniting the dwarves, it really depends on the how. They might submit to a granite breaker if the art has been lost. They might submit to krom if he wields the axe. It depends on what Aleron thinks.
     
  8. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    A specific grouping /clan, not necessarily all. This might be true for most clans, but we don't actually know
     
  9. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Citizen

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    Yeah, I think he will get the hill tribes Akron had mentioned. They don’t have a real leader. No king anyway.
     
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  10. Mister Bill

    Mister Bill Level 12 (Rogue) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I’m on team dwarf either way. I can be their very tall leader.
     
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  11. S'ahelas

    S'ahelas Level 8 (Thug) Exiles Citizen

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    It is possible to conquer or unite the dwarves and possibly orcs under the MV. But I wonder if allies won’t be better instead. The MV is tiny, 600 people. How can you possibly rule a large village or a group of villages or a kingdom from afar with anything less then a large city and complex economy?
     
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  12. Dragon

    Dragon Level 18 (Magician) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Hence the need to grow the village into a town and then a city. Its the reason I think Richter should start moving the dwarves and other races fine with living underground, into the mountains behind the village. It will allow them to optimize the use of their relatively limited space without establishing a third wall.

    As for increasing the population, there are a total of 4 minor tribes living within the mist. There is a caravan headed crammed with migrants headed for the village.

    Those are just the people we know off.

    Richter needs to pump the kindir for info about tribes living beyond the current borders of the mist. He needs to proactively send out emisaries like he did to Krom's clan, bearing gifts and working to establish relations.

    In this the invaders are doing him a favor. They are warring against the tribes of the forest, uprooting or destroying tribes. He should be working towards convincing those tribes to relocate to the relative safety of the mistlands, where they can be absorbed into the mist chiefdom as subordinate tribes. From there they can be integrated as citizens.


    Richter needs to start acting proactively, and not by immidiately launching a doomed campaign against foes that outnumber him hundreds to one. Building up his realm and establishing alliances with other realms is the way to go.
     
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  13. Anthav

    Anthav Level 6 (Footpad) Exiles Citizen

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    Yup agree on that one. I think he'll enter into an alliance between the wood elves, sprites, and MV as a start, and I think the carrot on the stick for the wood elves will be him using one of his dungeon entrances he can make to open the dungeon up to the elves inside their territory.

    I wonder what the other three minor tribes within the village limits are, they'd have to be underground or know(and have on hand) the mist salve otherwise they'd just die out being lost in the mists. So gnomes and dwarves are most likely. Possibly a beastkin type race (badger/mole/?). The kobolds prior history of having an empire doesn't put them in the normal trope of being evil so that's a possibility, at least the way I read it, so he could befriend a tribe of them that he hasn't raided. Only other race I can think off the top of my head is an aviary race that lives in the trees.
     
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  14. Dragon

    Dragon Level 18 (Magician) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    We've discussed opening up Dungeon entrances far away extensively. Lets just say some of us read it as a similar situation to the Dungeon in Law where the entrances are around and in the city (meaning inside the pop territory) and some think it can be placed anywhere in the Land, negating the need for the portal network.
     
  15. Dragon

    Dragon Level 18 (Magician) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    A weird guess would be a dryad grove, a band of satyrs that can live exclusively on grass and leaves so it doesn't matter if they get lost, as well as a flock of harpies that simply fly above the mist.

    None of those are happening but it would be hillarious if it did.
     
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  16. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Citizen

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    I don’t think Ricther will have to conquer any dwarves. I think the loose tribes will be looking to unite under a strong leader offering them security and greater opportunities. The dwarvin axe should definitely play a big part in their unification. Historically most leaders taking new lands would leave a garrison in a strong hold that can overlook their leaders interest.
     
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  17. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Citizen

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    Lol @Drag




    Well here is the stab.













    Yeah you know that the MV is so big Ricther really needs three entrances to his Dungeon.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
  18. Dragon

    Dragon Level 18 (Magician) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Alright fine, cpt is right, I was unclear in my last post. I'm the one who thinks it will negate the need for the portal network, at least somewhat, if entrances can be placed anywhere.

    It wasn't that much of a stab though :)

    As for needing them at home, the mist village has 300+ square miles of territory. If Richter conquers a kobold tribe on the way back - say the city he is headed for turns out to be an occupied kobold city - he will have 600+ square miles. Its a lot of territory which may well contain a dozen tribes once the underground races are taken into account. Strategically placed entrances could make it a lot easier to convince the bigger tribes that its in their best interest to join. If he places one close to the border he could build a fort to guard it and pull the mist back from a road leading to it.

    Allowing adventurers and troops from neutral powers beyond the mist a chance to enter the Dungeon as long as they pay an entrance fee and the appropriate taxes.

    In time its likely every entrance would become a mini Dungeon city in its own right, attracting settlers eager for a bit of the wealth without any of the risk. Those people will be setting up inns, red light districts, markets and housing areas.
     
  19. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    It's almost the best option anyway, having the dungeon entrances placed in his own borders. Not only does doing so negate the need for researching local portals (saving quite possibly millions of gold, thousands of research hours, and construction time), but it also keeps the monopoly on the dungeon as a commodity. Placing an entrance to your dungeon in another PoP basically sets it up as a franchise where the other rulers can (and almost assuredly will) set their own rules, prices and practices about entrance and admittance to the Dungeon. Fine in the case of the wood sprites because mega allies and all that, but not so much anyone else. That's: a) money you're not getting; or b) possibly a bad rap for adventurers who feel stiffed getting charged both Richter's price scheme plus whatever the next ruler adds on top of it, and likely guild dues to boot.

    By using them to create a fast travel network in your own empire however, you run into none of those problems, you shift the cost of transport and infrastructure almost completely onto other PoPs to build their ends of portals while you get a free 'road' system. Richter repeatedly talks about how the ability to move quickly is a huge advantage. By creating dungeon entrances throughout his lands (if done/ organized right), and having all of the military venture to each entrance, he can effectively have full coverage of his empire. Combined with a cartographer's table, and mapping rings for each out post giving real time updates of the empire? Game over. No uprisings that take a day to reach, no surprise invasions left unanswered, swift and efficient clearance of local monster/ dens/ nests. Plenty of hub towns where adventurer's can stay (mists cleared but not given immunity).

    Given all that, and a guaranteed entry points for any foreign force (friend or foe) of either your established portal room (which cant be used for war since inside dungeon), or your borders, I think the benefits of keeping the dungeon entrances for your own empire vastly outweigh any benefits to be gained from setting them up in other PoPs.

    The only downside I can think of for not using local portals instead of dungeon entrances is that you could with the right tech restrict access through a literal list of accepted parties only, instead of node road restriction through marks of the adventurer.
     
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  20. Dragon

    Dragon Level 18 (Magician) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Well dungeons are not for war so we'll have see whether it reacts somehow to ongoing warfare. Anyone who wishes to use it for fast travel would need a node road if I understand the system right.

    tldr
    Local portals may still have a use for rapid deployment and resupply as well as halving back and forth travel times to the mist village for non-adventurers.
     
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