POLL Economy

Discussion in 'Debates & Discussions' started by Avery Lucky, Feb 27, 2023.

  1. Avery Lucky

    Avery Lucky Level 2 (Initiate) Citizen

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    I just started Book 7. I'm enjoying the series so far, but something has been nagging me for a long time.

    Economy has been brought up many times. I'm confused by how it works. Richter pays all his people a wage. He buys and supplies all they need. He has to keep spending and keep spending. But this makes no sense to me.

    What are the people doing with their money? If everyone is being paid by the leader to work, are they not buying and selling among themselves? What government simply pays everyone to work for the community and the people just save 100% of their money?? This makes no sense to me.

    They live in the woods hundreds of miles from the nearest market. The people don't need money, unless they form an economy within the village. Richter should be keeping all the money for trade with other nations if the people are providing services for the good of the community, or he could distribute so much currency that the people can begin trading among themselves. But I haven't seen that even mentioned. Just him stressing about running out of gold because he has to keep paying everyone to work indefinitely.

    Has anyone else noticed this?
     
  2. Legend-Dairy-Reader

    Legend-Dairy-Reader Level 10 (Filcher) Exiles Citizen

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    He actually did touch on this in book 7 when discussing the professionals assignments with Randy. He just hasn’t been able to provide the resources necessary for the residents to start their own operations quite yet is my take:

    As far as the Trader, it’s time we start offering our people a chance to spend some of the coin I’ve been paying them. After the Townhall is built, one of the next projects I want completed is a Market. We can sell some luxury goods, and it will also give people a chance to sell items gained from the Dungeon.

    Book 7 Ch77
     
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  3. Mister Bill

    Mister Bill Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    It’s still kinda early so it’s still being set up AFAIK, although I figure the soldiers are least at gambling most of their pay away. Grunts gonna do grunt things. It’s a good thing there are no strip clubs or shady car dealerships nearby.
     
  4. PokemonThug

    PokemonThug Level 17 (Theurgist) Roleplaying Exiles Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    Welcome Brother!

    let this forum become your refuge and a Citadel of true power from which you will plan and plan within plans.... how to counter/disorient and reorganize your enem... opponents.

    Money is useless for his ppl(its nothing). They have free food(what happens when ppl can't afford food?) and that's all they need. Also they have free housing, medicine, education etc...
    What can they buy? they could bribe/trade for resources, esp if you have a career in enchanting/crafting/alchemy etc... they could hire another person to do their chores... a team to hunt together in the dungeon... buy stuff from traders(noone says to trade alone). MV does tax the population.. but still It pays the ppl moneys. I could assume that at some point ppl from MV might want to leave and then they would need money.

    Shadow/Black market does exist but Richto simply had other priorities. He should have built( there are so many ways to get buildings in the land....) a Marketplace really quick for a number of reasons. However now we have a situation where any trade happens in secret/ untaxed. And without this the progress is not as great as it could be.(Say if your neighbor has a porche and u dont.)

    Be careful monsters lie in this realm. And you must become a Monster yourself to defeat them.
     
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  5. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Well Richter is paying them because they work directly for him, not in their own businesses. Any food gathered, pelts, treasures, minerals and so on are Richter's personal property. In return they are given room and board along with payment for their labor. So its not that they are given free room and food, they pay with their labor. That said Richter IS paying them way, way, way too much. 1 silver a forthnight - half a regular salary for a common laborer in the Yvesian capital, which is likely higher than it would be elsewhere¨- along with room and board would be generous. Think of it as all expenses paid by their employer including rent, food, health care and pensions for the elderly and invalid, leaving them half a normal salary to do with as they will.

    They are still in the foundation stage of the new settlement where the lord directly owns and controls all aspects of the settlement. That works because the village is still relatively small, though Aleron has shown us indications that Richter's administration is starting to struggle. Too many moving parts for them to keep an eye on all of it, which is a problem with too much government control.

    If he is wise he will start planning out a town, lease out stores with an option to buy them outright in time, create a local bank for financing (not a Bank bank mind you), parcel out the farms to farmers that owe him a certain amount of produce and cash in return (serfdom in its most basic form) for protection, rent and public services. Build up an adventurers district outside the main settlement and open it to outsiders so they can dungeon dive without having too much access to the village-capital.

    In short, privatize while maintaining ownership of the land, stores and critical infrastructure. Lease and in time sell.
     
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  6. PokemonThug

    PokemonThug Level 17 (Theurgist) Roleplaying Exiles Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    Sounds legit, still I'd wager that in a perfect sociaity no money loans should exist, except perhaps state owned ones. Debs is a form of slavery is a way...
    But good to see @Dragon being still here, we do have some good news from AK
     
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  7. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Debt creates wealth :)

    Without the ability to take on debt to finance business it would become VERY difficult to set up a startup unless you already have significant wealth such as a home you can sell off (since you can't borrow against it).

    A different question is whether people should be able to finance living expenses (travels, luxury cars, high-end lifestyle) using credit, but I think that's ultimately people's own business as long as they can control it.

    One area I think does need an outright ban is predatory lending. Interest rates of 50+% a year or higher, i've heard of loans with an interest rate of more than 750% a year, are damaging for individuals and businesses. They create a lot of suffering by targeting people that really don't need another loan, but rather sound financial advice.
     
  8. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I remember reading a story on royalroad a couple years ago about a minotaur maze. Not particularly important story, but one aspect I remember was that they found a goldmine on the property which was great and all, they used it to renegotiate their debt and bring in a couple miners. What the author failed to realize was that the right move would have been to renegotiate interest rates, take on more debt and bring in a whole lot of professionals with the borrowed money. That would have brought in a LOT more money than he had to pay in interest on the loan,

    Debt does not have to be a bad thing. In your private economy its not great, but in a business bringing in debt is great as long as you can invest it and make more money using it than you spend on interest. That's pretty much the rule of thumbs: borrow while it pays off.
     
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  9. Mister Bill

    Mister Bill Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Yeah, good points here. Risk is a good thing in moderation! And payday loan type places shouldn’t be legal.
     
  10. PokemonThug

    PokemonThug Level 17 (Theurgist) Roleplaying Exiles Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    lets PIMP this idea out like a boos or in basic terms improve upon it!

    yes debt can be a great benefit id its a good debt and you should use it, gov does use it every day to basically exterminate us(just see what happens to the people politicians, they get bang bang(yes im talking about the Denm... pol)) So the improved idea.
    We find some fool, he officially "inherits the land with the gold mine" takes on a massive loan.

    then bankwupts and we get the gold loans cash and then we buy out the property from the bank(should hire a top lvl trader for this lol) and the fool declares bankruptcy or we buy him out as a slave/worker. Bow he will spend a month in solitary confinement but hey with a few bribes to the guards we could get him going on training some skills
     
  11. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Eh I know off a guy who does something a little similar just with christmas trees instead of gold. He creates a company, takes on contracts with plantation owners and brings in east european laborers. He then runs it for the season, paying them minimally while paying his partner company (different owner of course) handsomely for the rent of machines and such. By the end of the season the company goes bankrupt and the laborers get nothing. As there are no assets owned by the company they can't sell off any of the machines or cars.

    Costs him the startup capital, and a bit for living expenses.
     
  12. Dragon

    Dragon Level 19 (Enchanter) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Why would he go bankrupt though?

    Even a fool would bring in an expert to handle things and then lean back to enjoy life as a millionaire.
     
  13. PokemonThug

    PokemonThug Level 17 (Theurgist) Roleplaying Exiles Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    criminal, but nobody stops the plebs from stealing/burning the machines and trees...
     




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