Growing the Dungeon

Discussion in 'Debates & Discussions' started by PokemonThug, Aug 31, 2021.

  1. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

    84%
    Messages:
    1,746
    Likes:
    720
    xp:
    784
    LitCoin:
    9,882,282
    Zorkmid:
    647
    The entrance room came with his original entrance. We don’t know if the next entrance will just be a portal or if it will be like his original entrance. That being a room with a portal.

    I never made the assertion that Ricther has unlimited rooms in the dungeon. Although he does have several free rooms.

    Ricther converted settlement points to dungeon points. Then he used those in his entrance room/chamber to build his “stargate” type of portal along with the four Sided Barbican. At this point Ricther should have enough DP’s set aside for directed use that they could build some things.

    We will definitely find out more about the earned dungeon entrances later. I am personally hopeful they all come with an entrance room and perhaps a well of offering. The well might be a reach.
     
    Drasius and Mister Bill like this.
  2. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

    84%
    Messages:
    1,746
    Likes:
    720
    xp:
    784
    LitCoin:
    9,882,282
    Zorkmid:
    647
    Dark star, at times I think you like to Construe me.

    Just to be clear.

    I haven’t ever said the dungeon could create an entrance anywhere in the world.

    Nor did I suggest it could build one on the oceanfront.

    I did suggest that one might possibly be built on the riverfront. That’s a bit different.

    I have also previously made the argument that the dungeon would grow toward other sources of power. It has been stated clear that the dungeons primary desire is to feed and grow. I believe it has also been mentioned that the labyrinth connects to the dungeon before the dungeon connects to the labyrinth. So at first travel is only allowed one way until the dungeon connects to the labyrinth. Once connected to the labyrinth my understanding is that the dungeon starts connecting its own nodes. That causes the system to bend and at times break other node roads.

    I believe as these node roads are created they can and do connect to other dungeons. Not just in and out of the labyrinth. It has been stated that the node roads are used to travel between dungeons by adventurers making an extra living trading along the node roads.

    Its not like I have suggested that Ricthers free dungeon entrances be placed on another planet.

    I have in the past made the statement that Ricther has the ability to manipulate the dungeon. He has the ability to move his dungeon through the use of dungeon points and other means.

    For me it was made clear that Ricthers dungeon was actively feeding on all the ambient energies it could from the energy blast up to the magical “A” bomb that destroyed the mausoleum. In fact when the dungeon felt it’s power it turned itself towards the burst of energy.

    Do you think Dungeons in this story are inter dimensional? I do and I believe the entrance room with its portal is an anchor to the location. When saying portal I mean the portal entrance to the dungeon. Not to confuse it with the other types of portals.

    It was also stated that the dungeon has learned how to grow inter dimensional spaces. So what does that mean?

    Aren’t all magical dungeons inter dimensional? If it’s destroyed don’t they all complete disappear like it was never their? So when the egg chamber was built was it carved in an inter dimensional space or was it carved from normal earth? When the dungeon is destroyed will the egg chamber still be there? I don’t think so. I believe it will be the same as any mine mined in the dungeon. Mining might enlarge the dungeon or a dungeon room but it’s still part of that inter dimensional space.

    Maybe there wasn’t any logic or reasoning into Aleron placing that in the book about the dungeon gaining the ability to grow spanning space and time. I believe that inter dimensional growth will allow it to connect to other dungeons or points of power by spanning the gap with its own node roads. We know dungeons have node roads. We know Ricthers dungeon had recently joined the labyrinth and then exploded in growth to level ten. That’s when it gained its new ability of inter dimensional growth.

    But that’s just my reasoning. We all have our own.

    I also want to make it clear that I never said the barbican was a dungeon entrance.

    My understanding is that Ricther created a four sided fort in the center of the dungeon entrance room. Each individual side is barbican built around his Stargate type of portal that works along the ley lines. It was built to help defend the village from monster busting out of the dungeon and to protect them from malicious use of his portal. The barbican was designed to fight on inner walls as well as exterior walls.

    The Barbican not only adds for security coming and going but its a place for taxing portal users.

    Ricther had imagined layers of defense using the dungeon and the barbican to protect his ley line portal. Those layers were stacked to protect the village from having an army port straight on top of them. With Ricther knowing his side’s limitations he wouldn’t have any issues. Although any army porting in would be hit by the dungeons debuffs due to size.

    I find it funny, that you find it humorous claiming I said Ricther should build a port inside the dungeon.

    I did say Ricther should build a river entrance to the dungeon. I also mentioned a dungeon entrance room with a similar barbican and a small shipyard inside the barbican would be very James Bondish. With or without a local portal it would work to feed the dungeon and perhaps the village if it’s besieged.

    The Dungeon growing or shifting its nodes wouldn’t matter at all. The dungeon entrance room will always be the dungeon entrance room

    I’m glad to humor you and give you something to talk about here. As it seems it has been dead for some time.
     
    PokemonThug and Mister Bill like this.
  3. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

    84%
    Messages:
    1,746
    Likes:
    720
    xp:
    784
    LitCoin:
    9,882,282
    Zorkmid:
    647
    So there is a massive 3 meter wide by a 6 meter tall stump from a magical tree. The off shoot was not only magical but it would have been exposed to high ambient mana from Ricthers seed core. Beneath that massive ole stump there was a 3 foot hole. In the bottom of that three foot tall borrow there was a mass of bones from all types of creatures. When Ricther returns he could gather those bones and drop the into the well of offering. Then Ricther could collect all the other masses of bones he has came across to offer up to the well of offering.

    If I were Ricther use my new earth golem to dig up that old off shoot roots and all. Then cut the side shoot roots down so the golem could roll it back to the well.

    It might get you a few splinters but I doubt the bones get you many DP’s.
     
    Mister Bill and Drasius like this.
  4. Mister Bill

    Mister Bill Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    89%
    Messages:
    753
    Likes:
    411
    xp:
    689
    LitCoin:
    190,689
    Zorkmid:
    11
    Or have the mist workers do it if it’s close enough.
     
  5. darkenedstar

    darkenedstar Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

    70%
    Messages:
    394
    Likes:
    388
    xp:
    570
    LitCoin:
    8,771,161
    Zorkmid:
    577
    Oh I didn’t claim you were suggesting putting a port in the dungeon. The discussion brought that idea to my mind and I thought it was funny.

    I generally don’t spend a lot of time on this forum anymore. So I wind up reading large groups of posts to get caught up. There have been a lot of post about putting dungeon entrances in places that make it sound like the dungeons dimensional nature extends every where, rather than just in an area around its physical location.


    the egg chamber was carved out of the normal earth and given to the dungeon with dungeon points. I figure that when a dungeon get destroyed all actual physical locations will likely just collapse like a sinkhole or exist like an abandoned mine. I personally like the collapsing idea better mostly cause having tons of earth slam down on their heads is a fitting consequence for destroying a dungeon imo
     
    Mister Bill likes this.
  6. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

    84%
    Messages:
    1,746
    Likes:
    720
    xp:
    784
    LitCoin:
    9,882,282
    Zorkmid:
    647
    I’m not so sure about that.

    Where did Roswan start digging to create the egg chamber?

    Did it say he was outside of the dungeon?

    I think Roswan used the Dungeon workers to carve it out from inside the dungeon. He did have to use some dungeon points on the egg chamber to make it more like a safe room. Roswan only reduced the cost of building the room inside the dungeon. I don’t recall it ever saying that he built it outside the dungeon and then added it to the dungeon. I believe it was more like hollowing out an expanse by hand inside the dungeon then adding a portal “doorway” to keep creatures from coming and going and adding some wards to prevent it from all being consumed. The points saved were saved by not just using the power to immediately spawn a room with all the protections.

    When inside the dungeon I don’t think any of the earth is normal. I don’t believe you can dig into it or out of it. I don’t believe anyone mining resources would ever mine a hole or entrance through the wall of the dungeon.

    On the placement of dungeon entrances Aleron hasn’t given up much information. The story doesn’t have any information about entrances having to be placed in any given area.

    All we know for certain is that Ricther has two free entrances now. Every five levels of dungeon growth offers a free entrance. We also know that after the dungeon reaches level ten it has the power to expand itself inter dimensionally.

    So everything else is only hypothetical.

    I for one don’t understand why the dungeon would need the ability to grow inter dimensionally at level ten. The Dungeon from its very birth is inter dimensional.

    It was stated that if the dungeons item of power was taken the dungeon would disappear as if it never was there. That’s different then just collapsing. Didn’t they tell you could dig looking for it afterwards and never find any trace of it? If it only collapsed there would be remains left behind or at least you would find the collapsed earth. But the statement was you would never find any remains.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2022
    Mister Bill likes this.
  7. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

    84%
    Messages:
    1,746
    Likes:
    720
    xp:
    784
    LitCoin:
    9,882,282
    Zorkmid:
    647
    I know many people here agree that there must be some sort of area restriction? That the new dungeon entrances must remain confined to the local area? If so we must except that normal dungeons would of a smaller area of effectiveness then a dungeon powered by a lace of power. We must also consider each dungeons item of power and its type of magic. As items of power and types of magic all have different degrees of power according to their classifications. With that said I believe we can all agree that the sentient bloodstone powered by blood magic and then radiated by such a pure source of chaotic magic (magic of creation itself) that it filled the Land with its magic.

    Considering how powerful Ricthers dungeon is and the types of magic fueling it how far do you think it should be capable of setting a new entrance?

    Would you say the first entrance gained at level 5 could be placed within

    1. One mile into the mist
    2. Half way through the mist
    3. To the edge of the mist
    4. One mile beyond the mist
    5. Somewhere we’ll beyond the mist

    Ricthers dungeon earned its second free entrance when it reached level ten. For some reason we are told according to the story the dungeon learned to become inter dimensional at that point. For what reason are we told that?

    The labyrinth connecting to his dungeon created a one way entrance. Then the dungeon created its own entrance to the labyrinth. After which Ricther earns his First FREE entrance. So at what point could Ricther have used DPs to buy an entrance?

    So would there be a difference in where entrances could be built prior to level ten?

    Is it possible that the reason The Hall of Elemental Hunters allegedly has so many close entrances is due to its growth of the dungeon?

    We know Dungeons are always hungry and it’s main motivation is to grow. We also know that “human” life means very little for the rulers of Law. Unlike Ricther I believe they grew their dungeon by feeding it people. Ricther has been blessed with methods to feed his dungeon besides using his population. It has also grown extremely fast. Ricther as far as we know never new you earned free entrances every five levels until he reached level ten. In law they might have purchased entrances prior to receiving their first free one. We just don’t know. My guess is that law had purchased multiple dungeon entrances before ever reaching level ten.

    The difference in dungeons growth methods could have vastly different outcomes. Not only for the dungeons growth and development but for the entrances as well.
     
  8. darkenedstar

    darkenedstar Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

    70%
    Messages:
    394
    Likes:
    388
    xp:
    570
    LitCoin:
    8,771,161
    Zorkmid:
    577
    I personally think that the dungeon will both benefit and suffer from being on a place of power. It gets a massive increase in power while at the same time having it’s area of influence limited by that place of powers settlement level. Of course a high level settlement with a massive territory might just be a benefit. Meaning any entrance can be created anywhere inside the shared territory.

    the problem with this idea comes from the kingdom level mechanic. Is the settlement level and kingdom level the same or different mechanics? We don’t yet have an answer for that. If different, would the dungeon be able to use the kingdom territory or just the settlement territory. In my opinion it would be the settlement level that it is officially tied to and not the kingdom level.

    At what point could a dungeon use dp to create an entrance? Level ten of course. The moment it becomes truly dimensional.
     
    Drasius and Captain BlackJack like this.
  9. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

    84%
    Messages:
    1,746
    Likes:
    720
    xp:
    784
    LitCoin:
    9,882,282
    Zorkmid:
    647
    Please explain. I see the dungeon as a living creature not a village structure. I know Ricther and Alma are tied to the ace of power and advance with its level. I thought the dungeon only consumed ambient power from Ricthers place of power. As the PoP levels up and produces more ambient power it would feed the dungeon faster. Although at some point the Dungeon learns to produce the same magical energies. Then the dungeon makes even more of that ambient magic dumping it right back into the surroundings. Other then that I don’t recall any connection.

    If there was a village connection wouldn’t the dungeon have broken those rules by leveling so high?

    What would the connection between the dungeon and Ricthers place of power be? How are they tied together?
     
    Mister Bill likes this.
  10. darkenedstar

    darkenedstar Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

    70%
    Messages:
    394
    Likes:
    388
    xp:
    570
    LitCoin:
    8,771,161
    Zorkmid:
    577
    so we know a pop have at least 2 growth mechanics. Awakening powers and settlement level. Awakening powers increases the pop strength and settlement level increases its area of control. My thought is that the dungeon would be inextricably tied to the pop and the effects of its growth mechanics, not the mechanics themselves.

    the strength mechanic is already borne out with the awakened power boost to dungeon points. So it seems likely to me that the dungeon would be able to create entrances and use other influences in the pop area of influence. The dungeon transport spell is in my opinion pretty good supporting evidence, since it works any where in the mist village domain but not outside it. I figure that without a pop the transport spell would work only in a domain around the dungeon itself.

    the dungeon growth wouldn’t be limited by the tie, only it’s influence on the land. So the dungeon could hit level 900 with out a problem regardless the level of the village. It just wouldn’t have a huge foot print in the land at settlement level 1.

    was that clearer. Cause actually explaining this thought is a bitch
     
    Captain BlackJack likes this.
  11. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

    84%
    Messages:
    1,746
    Likes:
    720
    xp:
    784
    LitCoin:
    9,882,282
    Zorkmid:
    647
    For instance when the two PoP’s powers were awakened the dungeon gained 200% increase on those powers toward DP’s. So do you expect that to continue?

    That is one of the issues I have. My problem with it is that the dungeon would need to be tied to the PoP similar to Ricther and Alma. The only connection I see is it originally feeding off the PoP until it learns that form of magic. Now if the Dungeon could draw from the PoP’s mana like Ricther I could see that. As the pop leveled it would have more mana to draw from. Other then that I thought it would consume the different types Magical mana until it learned to make it. At that point the dungeon would produce more mana flooding the surrounding area with it. Didn’t one of the books say the dungeon would raise the surrounding areas mana levels. It supposed to make bigger and stronger local monster/beast/creatures.
     
    Mister Bill and Drasius like this.
  12. darkenedstar

    darkenedstar Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

    70%
    Messages:
    394
    Likes:
    388
    xp:
    570
    LitCoin:
    8,771,161
    Zorkmid:
    577
    It kind of does draw off the pop. The dungeon point bonus had nothing to do with awakening magic, even if it also had the benefit of awakening that magic type. It was a dungeon point bonus nothing more. Pretty sure the bonuses will grow as the powers are awakened to level 2. I am not entirely certain the awakened powers actually worked to awaken the dungeons magic.

    yes I expect the dungeon to currently have a 400% bonus atm.

    Is it odd that I feel the need to pay attention to this forum, when I decide to read the series again?
     
    Drasius and Captain BlackJack like this.
  13. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

    84%
    Messages:
    1,746
    Likes:
    720
    xp:
    784
    LitCoin:
    9,882,282
    Zorkmid:
    647
    That very well might be the case.

    As I was trying to follow your line of thinking it made me think about how the dungeon consumes then radiates more magical energies back out. Which I thought might be a temporary bonus although nothing was ever said about it being temporary.

    When the Dungeon consumes ambient mana from the place of power what is it consuming?

    Is it consuming Dark, Light, Air, and Water Steeped mana?

    Or Is it consuming plain mana?

    I would say the dungeon consumes a bit of both. The energy is likely fractional in proportion. Maybe 1/32 type of magic/mana.

    Tying the dungeons powers to the PoPs power radius is kind of letting the dungeon out is the box. The Dungeons transport spell isn’t a spell that the dungeon cast or uses. That is a spell given to the dungeon master and likely the dungeon keeper. We know that Ricther has to cast the spell not the dungeon. Like Ricthers settlement powers being greatly increased due to the PoP level so is his dungeon.

    i don’t think of The dungeon transport spell as anything more then a spell Ricther has. I think that spell would only use his dungeon as the anchor point. The hearth mother had talked about it some prior. I am very curious as to how that will work with any new Entrance.

    And YES!! All new entrances come with a well of offering.
     
  14. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

    84%
    Messages:
    1,746
    Likes:
    720
    xp:
    784
    LitCoin:
    9,882,282
    Zorkmid:
    647
    Ricther definitely needs to set an open quest in place with a nice finders fee on Items of power. If you really want the dungeon to grow you need to feed it. The well of offering is In great need of items of power.

    Dungeon growth could be amplified with items of power.

    That’s not saying it should become THE Dungeons item of power. It should only be an item of power that the dungeon can use. So what does that mean?

    If an item of power is placed in the well of offering the dungeon learns how to make it 100% of the time. That does not mean the dungeon can make that item. On the other hand if an item of power is placed in a special room the dungeon could utilize it. Outside of that room the dungeon could absorb all of its ambient mana. Yet inside the item of powers room it could manifest its full potential.

    Regurgitating an old argument here. A seed core placed in a special dungeon room could be used to either mutate and empower other living things or it could be used to start a dungeon offshoot. I think placing it in a room that couldn’t absorb it long with seeds, grains, nuts, ad saplings of every magical ind would be best to start with. Aleron might even create his on type of treeants. Once they were changed have Hisako plan a dungeon trip to grant it a blessing and grow an off shoot.

    That type of magic and transformation would definitely stimulate the development of the dungeon.
     
    Drasius likes this.
  15. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

    84%
    Messages:
    1,746
    Likes:
    720
    xp:
    784
    LitCoin:
    9,882,282
    Zorkmid:
    647
    Ricther should have given the well of offering some of the meat that he had taken off of the rock giant. The qualities it had might be passed to other creatures.
     
    Drasius and Mister Bill like this.
  16. Mister Bill

    Mister Bill Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    89%
    Messages:
    753
    Likes:
    411
    xp:
    689
    LitCoin:
    190,689
    Zorkmid:
    11
    Yup. Plus it would make a good addition to the dungeon to harvest more in the future.
     
    Drasius likes this.
  17. Gurston

    Gurston Level 9 (Burgler) Exiles Citizen

    98%
    Messages:
    65
    Likes:
    89
    xp:
    249
    LitCoin:
    6,698,433
    Zorkmid:
    445
    I thought the last of it was used to boost the troops in the fight with the goblins, so before he had the dungeon.
     
  18. Captain BlackJack

    Captain BlackJack Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Citizen

    84%
    Messages:
    1,746
    Likes:
    720
    xp:
    784
    LitCoin:
    9,882,282
    Zorkmid:
    647
    You are probably right. For some reason I was thinking it was before the Lich battle. Which that most certainly would have been.
     
    Mister Bill likes this.
  19. Mister Bill

    Mister Bill Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

    89%
    Messages:
    753
    Likes:
    411
    xp:
    689
    LitCoin:
    190,689
    Zorkmid:
    11
    Sounds right. Maybe he’ll find another one he can throw down the well.
     
    Drasius and Captain BlackJack like this.
  20. darkenedstar

    darkenedstar Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Citizen

    70%
    Messages:
    394
    Likes:
    388
    xp:
    570
    LitCoin:
    8,771,161
    Zorkmid:
    577
    I would not be surprised if the dungeon already had a rock giant. Thanks to the lich and his army. At this point aleron could have just about anything land based as a dungeon monster.
     




Share This Page