What are the scenes that have to be in a story for it to be considered LitRPG? For example, if I hand you a murder mystery, you expect a story that will include a dead body, a detective, false clues, and maybe a sidekick like Watson. Those things either have to be there or they are there so frequently that they might as well be mandatory. What elements are like that in LitRPG? I would say that the scenes are: Entering the world or Game Receiving a quest Introducing the notification system Learning about Game Mechanics or how this world works Anything else?
@Paul Bellow this kinda ties into your post about story beats. Do you have any thoughts on what are the must-have scenes for LitRPG?
I refuse to read the replies because my f**cking brain will make me try and subvert all the tropes, regardless of how useful some of them are...
How does character creation tip you off to the nature of the book? Because the choice of character class gives you an idea of what to expect? Is that what you're talking about or something else?
It lets me know how crunchy or soft the book will be, gives quite a bit of information on game mechanics, tells me how structured the MC is, whether it's free form or fixed progression, gives me an idea of how much padding there's going to be in terms of character sheet/skill tooltips, hints at whether or not the MC is going to end up being the most broken thing since the shell on this morning's boiled egg, and can sometimes even give me a sense of how much I'm going to enjoy the book up front.
Hmmm. I hear you, and agree. I'm currently (in the thing I'm writing that I shouldn't be) slapping my readers with a chunk of "Choose your class, choose your faction, assign your attributes" stuff once I hit the character creation trope. It's interspersed with the protag's commentary, but I'm trying to do away with the silliness of in game textual alerts when (on the higher-tech end) the player's mind is interacting with the program. There are better ways to get a message to me then by making me read it, damn it! Particularly if you're already kicking around in my head... I know I'll have to tread carefully, but maybe I should be even more wary.
@Tom Gallier @CheshirePhoenix All that? Really? I mean I can see how it would tell you how crunchy the book will be and how much padding the author is going to use. I can also understand why it would reveal some of the game mechanics, but how does it let you know whether the MC is going to end up being broken? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by free form or fixed progression? I'm guessing that is a reference to how rigid the rules and game mechanics are. Is that right? What do you mean by 'how structured the MC is'? Can you explain that a bit?
In general, the more free form the rules are, the easier it is to break the game over your knee and make it cry for mommy. So in a game where in order to learn a skill you just have to use it, it combines with the player's meta knowledge of the game to make him a god tier level one character. If the player knows nothing about the game, then they're probably going to stumble into being a worldbreaker. An example of this would be Dave Grahslagg from the Emerilia books. Conversely, the more structure and restriction there is, the harder it is to break the game. It can still be done, but it's a lot harder and takes intent to do. I can't think of a solid example of this one though, since authors (in my experience) tend to asspull a lot when it comes to assigning skills and abilities as characters level up based on the needs of the character and plot rather than game balance concerns. Free form vs fixed progression is how the character progresses within the structure of the game. Do you get skill points for leveling up that are used to improve skills and learn new ones? If so, that's fixed progression. If you improve skills via practicing them, that's freeform. To use a real world game example, it's like the difference between the Elder Scrolls franchise and the Witcher franchise.
Thanks. That makes sense. I feel like I want to ask more questions about your observations, but none are coming to mind at the moment. I may return to haunt you again at another time.
Two of my series doesn't have the main character entering the game. They were born into it and that's their reality. None of my books have quests. Characters have goals and challenges which may be shaped by the game. I see quests as talking to an NPC with a question mark over their head (not always literally). All of my books have a notification system of some kind. All my of books detail the game mechanics enough for the reader to understand and get along with the story. None of my series have a character creation screen. Haha. I'm just failing these left and right. What would I say is mandatory...? Hmm... Fight scene against mobs or players that rewards something. Typically experience, and/or loot/money. All of my series have that, though one may not provide any experience/loot for battles. It's an arena based simulation and progression isn't determined by levels, though by skill. (I could also see a LitRPG slice-of-life type concept that doesn't have any battles). I guess I feel the genre can be quite diverse and there might not be any one scene/trope required. It's how the whole book comes together that's important, and the feel it gives.
I don't like the ES level up system that was bugged out with "run" eating up points that min maxers kept turned off in favor of other stats. Pimp walking super slow in their playthroughs to get better attack and spell skills or something, plus late game agility may have made run redundant: it was explained and I did not care to hear it. So it was something like that, and it was the dumbest shit I've ever seen, and I like watching glitched to hell and back speed runs. Actually learning how to use a sword, or staff, or spear, and fighting without special skills, makes sense in a VR game with endurance battles; so instead of going with general skills I just break it down by how special abilities are activated and improved on. Action Activated Abilities = Perform repeated overhead hammer blows against a guy blocking at an upward angle with his shield absorbing the blows, activate the hammer skill "Shield Smash" and crater him into the ground he's standing on and stun him. If its a group combat formation of long handled war-hammers with shields against a spear wielding shield holding "turtle formation" - the hammer skill can totally break the enemy line, going over their own buddies shields to repeatedly "smash" their enemies. Do AAA level up? Do skill / ability levels come from repeated use? Does it take fewer blows over time to activate the ability, does it evolve into a "pre-loaded" ability like WoW warriors heroic strike was originally (think I heard that it changed) - qued to be activated with next Hammer Swing that encounters a shield? Is there a split development path for the skill, where one becomes "pre-loaded" and the other increases the blows required but no longer stuns an enemy, but literally smashes their shield? The Literal "Shield Smash" path could gain power from every blow in succession against a shield, even if it wasn't the same shield: allowing a player to build up to activating it against a mini-raid boss with an especially potent and dangerous magically imbued shield who was surrounded by underlings, or even "built up" against their own allies in anticipation of a direct conflict. Forcing players in the end game to swap shields out from their best to one that has "Shield Smash" immunity like World of Warcraft had weapon chains to prevent disarms. AAA require skill and situational awareness and a lot of effort to balance around. Interface Activated Actions = Require the same situational awareness to use effectively, and possibly more effort to balance around the features, abilities or skills that are activated either at will or based on conditions like the "qued" or pre-loaded special attack. But only through an interface of some kind. This includes "willing" zero incantation abilities to activate, or any other sort of ranged telekineses like control a player has over objects. Like a Fire Magician in a duel with another Fire Magician, they can control their fireballs from a distance, zig-zagging around interceptors and "back blasting" someone who does obscure their own vision with a shield to block, but they expend more mana the farther away the magical missile goes. When its Fire Magician against Fire Magician, the player farther away from their created attack then have less "influence" when their "domain" overlaps with a player closer to an element they too have control over. So even in VR the "telekinesis" of a mage duel results in Game System assisted combat. With the game balance then requiring that Fire Mages be tested thoroughly in duels to figure out the right balance of control and at what range with the degree of control two fire mages at point blank should have over their own attacks and their adversaries. I have a lot of "will" activated abilities in my story, and for the example of the Fire Mages, I just made them immune and had all their attacks have a plethora of utility and environment altering features that other fire mages wouldn't be immune to. The control thing with immunity in the picture makes it so dodging and touching a fire-ball that is seeking them makes the fire-ball theirs, with no mana cost for them in its summoning, only in controlling it. If there are 40 types of fireballs, some of which have a vacuum at their core because all the air in their center was fed into the fire, then baiting a fire mage into trying to steal it for themselves, and dismissing it to cause a thunder-clap that stuns the too close enemy when air rushes to fill the vacuum - thats an attack strategy that could work in close or far away. Forcing the fire mage duelist who suspects a "thunder ball" is coming at him to make a choice, they are forced to expend mana controlling the attack and safely misdirecting it to a safe distance before then manually detonating it with an ability of their own, or they evade its range and are guided around the battle field while launching their own counter attacks and trying to force the other mages attention away from the attack. However most of the IAA stuff in LitRPG is never explained in detail, regardless of how it levels up, its just "dude used this super awesome attack" and it worked. So free form, with skills that level? That isn't really accurate, and doesn't explain how the abilities work at all. The fixed progression however is a very good point, as that affects everything from crafting to high skill AAA that players with the ability to say, black smith, tailor, leather work, sword fight, or perform martial arts - should be able to activate out of the gate. However they are kept from activating the abilities at level one due to Lore restrictions. Either arbitrary defensive penalties for low "skill" work that is perfectly created in a crafting medium but that requires "earned" skill ups to become potent through the games arbitrary defense and offense enhancing crafting system, or attacks that have a martial and situational combat activation condition that require a player to earn simulated "experience" or skill to add a magical attack ability (IAA or AAA) to their arsenal. The IAA option from attacks wouldn't have to be linked to the combat chain, and could be some totally tangential boon like a group heal or buff. The sweet looking but crap gear compared to shit looking but NPC expert crafted items from the Fixed Progression System is something I do away with in favor of material based boons and tricks to improving "defense" ratings of tailored vs leather worked vs metal worked items.
I think there might be tropes based on "game types" in the future, like The Matrix / Chuck "I know Kung Fu" skill uploads. Which already exists as a trope I'm fairly certain. Then there is OP protagonist splits: Did they luck into rare quest that only they get that will make them OP as long as they continue to play in an eccentric way? Are they just better than everyone else? Did they find the necromancer class and get special necro gear that makes them god mode? OP+lucky, OP+OP, OP+Necromancer=OP(OP) The Portal World moment where the stakes become real, either because the story gets dark as f**k or because some Red Shirt dies to show that shit is real. The degenerate reincarnation arc with "adult" babies breastfeeding on their own mothers for the Japanese Reincarnation Fantasy stories (which all have Adventurer Halls connected all across the kingdoms... never understood that one, where does the AA, SSS ranking system come from other than DDR and other arcades? When was it married to free to play RPGs!? Why are all the staff in them big ttited women!?) The degenerate reincarnation arc "adult" child or teen with a Loli-con fetish. The soy sauce and rice obsession for any Japanese portal world / reincarnation / VR game. The sex with an AI scene if its that sort of story. The rapey sex with a player who has no choice but maybe doesn't hate it, because Orgazmo Ray. The Millions of players with world wide mass appeal, and no religious or racial tensions, or cultural tensions. (This isn't true of Chinese LitRPG, they love them some racism)
As mentioned character creation is a must. even if it was one sentence that went like this "the capsule scanned his facial features and copied it onto the default avatar for that race" more things that would classify it as a litrpg, are things common in RPG games. Stats have to be included be it an elaborate system or a simple HP/MP bar. Classes, Races and Skills. custom building your character is what makes the game and it helps get me invested in the story. Items and gold (because why else would you play this game if not to grind for stuff says the hoarder typing this!) Monsters. from the introductory Spiders and dragons to the more exotic. boss fights are a must. Quests are actually not a must, the book can have an end goal or be plot driven but I find character driven tales to be the best.
My new book has two chapters dedicated to building the character for the game. Seems long, but I hope the way I introduce it will make it move it along quickly. It also explains some game mechanics and world building intermixed. I want it to be interesting and figured blending all that together will help. Not sure yet how I feel about it and I may slim it down later. It is by far the most complex game system I have made yet, but I think it is so complex because I am trying to keep it easy to understand for the reader. Just like any typical software development project, the more dummy proof I want to make the system the more work that needs to go into its infrastructure. So going down that line of thought, I think the introduction of the game system is always one of the trickiest components and necessary. I can sometimes deal with a with an OP MC if the game mechanics hold up. I will probably stop reading it if the author breaks their own rules. It is the reason I loved and hated that TV show Heroes. The character and skills were cool, and the story was engaging, but damn if they did not break almost every rule their world building set. Continuity is very important for me.
What more are you adding to game mechanics other than this weapon or attack does this much damage and the character has this many hitpoints? I mean some thought has to go into the mob levels and how many experience points they get from killing them and what type of loot they get, but that seems simpler than the approach you're describing. What other things are you adding?
I don't want to get all spoilery yet. If you are curious though send me a private message and I'll talk about it some. Might be good to bounce it off someone.
