RANT Race: To be or not to be

Discussion in 'All Things LitRPG' started by RauthrMystic, Jul 28, 2018.

  1. Viergacht

    Viergacht Thunderdragon LitRPG Author Roleplaying Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    [​IMG]
     
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  2. RauthrMystic

    RauthrMystic Elf Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    I think some of the problem with games like WoW is that each race is a certain thing. Night elves are all natury, blood elves are magic eaters, taurens are all shaman-esque. I think it can be hard for people to see beyond that. Perhaps more to the point they don't want to.
     
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  3. RauthrMystic

    RauthrMystic Elf Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    That's true. I had no idea WoW humans had any bonuses. I"m so used to D&D/D20 where humans are generally just...adaptable
     
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  4. RauthrMystic

    RauthrMystic Elf Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    now that's just mean. on a more serious note though as far as clothing goes, we started wearing them to help us adapt to our environment (so our menfolk would quit freezing their balls off). Would the centaurs do the same? I mean their junk is already extra protected b/c it's mostly inside. AND if a centaur is going to wear jeans I vote option b. it'll keep them warmer that way. Course the you have to figure out how in the world they put them on!
     
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  5. Simon Fiasco

    Simon Fiasco Bringer of the Avocadopocalypse LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    There's another reason for the proliferation of humans and blood elves in World of Warcraft. These races have, by far, the highest populations in their factions largely because it's fairly easy to get a level one character to the main city to use as a bank/auction character. (Well, at least it is for a human. I seem to recall it being easy for blood elves, too, but I've never really played Horde much...) We may be seeing more of those races simply because many people have made additional alts for that purpose.
     
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  6. Jay

    Jay Hiatus. LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    I would assume centaurs likely don't need clothing for warmth near as much as humans, assuming both parts have the hair/fur like a horse does. However, it could be necessary for protection while hunting, traveling, and fighting so they might favor clothing being more armor-like or more for carrying perhaps?

    One thing that makes me wonder is why female centaurs would have breasts? At least assuming that they're a species of their own and not just an actual magical combo of horse/human mixed together. If they're a species of their own, it makes sense that their children would be carried in the 'horse half' simply for ease of birth and probably be able to walk around fairly quickly simply for the fact they likely would be difficult to carry, unlike baby primates. So logically speaking, for the children to reach easily when very young, the milk would need to come from udders on the mother's underside like cows and horses. So breasts on the chest wouldn't really serve a function? I suppose they could be supplemental milk for when the children are older...or particularly young if we go with them being carried.

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. RauthrMystic

    RauthrMystic Elf Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    Very very interesting. You are correct. there is no reason for female centaurs to have breasts. what if they didn't have nipples or a belly button either..i mean both sexes on the last bit. The umbilical chord would connect closer to the horse parts tummy me thinks.

    and armor would depend on their culture i suppose. I mean horses are vegetarians by nature, so it wouldn't surprising if centaurs would be too. there would be fighting though, by their very nature. Perhaps like us? I'm sure our men used to fight for domination over other menfolk.
     
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  8. Mirikon

    Mirikon Level 8 (Thug) LitRPG Author Citizen

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    That 57%, though? That's spread across 11 different groups (if you count Alliance and Horde Pandaren as separate groups). And when you break them down into the differences between the two factions, Horde players tend to be Blood Elves (roughly 1/3), and then it is fairly even between the others except for the newest groups, goblins and pandaren. For the Alliance, roughly half of the characters are Humans or Night Elves, with 'sexy space goats' and 'English werewolves' taking the majority of the rest.

    The min-maxers are a minority of the population, primarily going towards high-end raiders or hardcore PvPers. The majority of the player base isn't like that. There are plenty of players I've played with that simply always do Blood Elves, regardless of class or spec, with a lone Alliance toon for faction-specific quests. I know that I, personally, keep a Dranaei as a lone Alliance toon, while I mostly play blood elves. It is the same reason that in Dragon Age I almost always play human and elf females. If I'm going to spend hundreds of hours looking at someone's back, I want it to be an attractive one.

    But whether it is a conscious choice or not, the majority of gamers on games like WoW, people pick humans and races that most closely resemble humans. And the bias towards playing humans in D&D existed long before 5e, simply because they were simple, and didn't have any disadvantages, making them good for new characters, and people got used to that. The other races and options were increasingly more complex, sometimes involving an entirely separate base class to play!

    But the reasons why gamers typically play humans aren't the issue here. That's just background. The point is that most gamers play human or human-like characters for the overwhelming majority of their games, and even when they aren't, they see mostly humans and human-like characters in the world around them. That essentially becomes institutional bias. It is the same reason why the overwhelming majority of litrpg books involve the MC at least trying to be a good person and a heroic type, even if they aren't out to save the world. How many books are there about VILLAINS? Not vigilantes or antiheroes, but honest to goodness villains that know they are the bad guys and are completely fine with it?
     
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  9. Jay

    Jay Hiatus. LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    I imagine you're probably right and they don't have bellybuttons on the human part. The same for nipples, unless we're going with biology having them have mammaries on the human half and eventually evolving away from that... That might be overthinking it though.:p

    I see centaurs as being omnivores, mostly because it follows along with them having hands, etc. Most animals that have limbs that manipulate tend to protein in their diet, although not always, I'm sure. So I figured if they evolved tools and weapons along the same route that humans did, they would likely be omnivores, although if they had a digestive system closer to equines, they'd probably be able to survive on plants, even grasses, far more easily than humans. I actually picturing them being a lot like bears: foragers, probably 80%+ plants in their diet, but they won't turn down meat and even hunt if the opportunity arises. I figure they probably have a shorter digestive system than herbivores to help avoid the issues those kinds of systems have (colic, etc.).
     
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  10. Jay

    Jay Hiatus. LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    Yes, it's spread, but I kind of wonder how they figured the statistics to be honest. Did they ask everyone to pick a "main" and only count that? Or did they count every single character (even level 1 bank alts) across every active account? The flat statistics without explanation doesn't actually tell us what most people play, only the numbers they have as a whole. Which is still useful, but tells only part of the story.

    In my experience, the RPers are a pretty low population, depending on the server. Servers tend to have populations heavy with certain groups, such as raiding, PvP, or RP. That is not to say you're wrong. I'm sure a ton of people pick for aesthetics. I know a ton of people who play the opposite gender of a "hot" race because they want their character to look hot/sexy/awesome. However, I also know a lot of RPers who pick a race solely to fit in or to join guilds that allow for only specific races too. They might prefer...orcs or undead, but they'll do blood elves because a lot of RP centers around Silvermoon and blood elves. Same for Alliance side, they might enjoy Pandaren but will pick night elf or human because that's where the RP they're interested in is.

    I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, but more that it's a bit more complicated than just going "well, gamers tend to pick humans!". There are a ton of reasons for why they may or may not. I do think there's more of a market for "nonhumans" than some think, but that's not to say human MCs don't have a market and aren't popular/desired/fun. There's literally zero wrong with human MCs. Just personally, I'd like to see some non-human ones get the spotlight too.

    Also, don't get me started on the "good guy" MCs that are kind of terrible people!:p That's a whole other rant. I don't even mean the "antihero" types, but more the ones that act awful and try to portray themselves as heroes/good guys...

    However, I do agree! Seeing more darker heroes and more villains would be interesting and a nice change! Because let's be honest, how many people who RP have seen the vast numbers of "grimdark" villain "badasses"? If someone let people into the game and get away with that? A lot of players would be allllll over it!
     
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  11. Mirikon

    Mirikon Level 8 (Thug) LitRPG Author Citizen

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    You might enjoy my books, then. Rules-Free VRMMO Life is my homage to that rare and beautiful thing in Tabletop gaming known as the Evil Campaign. Also, my Lewd Dungeon books are definitely about a horrible person who becomes a dungeon and does horrible things.
     
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  12. Viergacht

    Viergacht Thunderdragon LitRPG Author Roleplaying Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    That's pretty much the conclusion I came to on my headworld centaurs - the humanlike torso is more equivalent to a neck with arms than a chest. No boobs because they technically aren't mammals (and din't have an evolutionary bg exactly similar to humans) -the kids are born very physically developed and eat mushy food right from the beginning. In the old days the moms chewed the food for them; nowadays they make soups and mashed cooked food. Umbilical is on the horizontal torso since that's where the guts are. They also have a full coat of fur and "molt" when they get older.

    Plus I imagine having unsupported deadweight on your chest and no sports bras would be really hard on the lower back when galloping.
     
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  13. Simon Fiasco

    Simon Fiasco Bringer of the Avocadopocalypse LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    [​IMG]
     
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  14. RauthrMystic

    RauthrMystic Elf Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    See I don't count elves as humans. They are different. So of those numbers you've quoted you would need to find the ones that JUST play humans. For this conversation, we are discussing non-human characters, even if they are human-like. Though then I'd have ot ask how do we define human-like. Is it because they are bipedal with two arms, a head, two eyes, a nose, and a mouth? oh and ears! can't forget those gorgeous elven ears! If that's the case than there are many races that fit that mold, but they're certainly not all human.

    SO human is human, if it's not human it's not human. As to why people write human as their protagonist? I think some of it may just be lazy world building. If you write a human, you can easily assume cultural norms and mores. If you write an elf, then you have to actually show the reader how being an elf is different, how that feels. The few 'elves' I've seen written were mostly just changes to the avatar skin. There were no other obstacles or benefits of the race.
     
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  15. RauthrMystic

    RauthrMystic Elf Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    I concur. I like the idea of the evolution there. I will say then that the centaurs diet would likely include bugs, which can get pretty exotic. I'll also point out that while horses certain do eat grasses, they also love tree leaves, the freshest sprouts the better. also flowers..that gives a whole new meaning to giving your date a bouquet of flowers.

    Also depending on biology the centaur may be able to digest more effectively than a human or a horse simply because you could have the human stomach and digestive tract, tie into the horses stomach. And since they are omnivores its not as essential that they eat their body weight in plants because they can add nutrients through other sources.

    OMG YOUR AMAZING

    sorry. just slipped.
     
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  16. RauthrMystic

    RauthrMystic Elf Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    There back is already a pickle. well ...not literally. They have like a 90degree curve from their horseback to their human back.

    oh and on horse birth/mum stuff:
    • Within a couple of hours the foal is standing and walking around, In the wild this is imperative as it may have to run away from danger.
    • As soon as it is standing it will take its first important drink from its mothers milk, this will provide it with something called Colostrum (basically the mother passes her antibodies onto her foal through her milk, providing the foal with a means to fight infection and disease and grow strong)
    • At first all the foal drinks is its mothers milk but from about six weeks onwards it will start to copy her and try grass/feed etc. As the foal gets older it will become more independent, it learns by copying its mother and other horses.In the wild the mare will naturally wean her foal and push it away (by now she is probably pregnant again) but in captivity the owner usually weans the foal at about six months.
    Horses are mammals, they aren't primates. But your right that it opens a whole new idea of rearing a child
     
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  17. Viergacht

    Viergacht Thunderdragon LitRPG Author Roleplaying Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    My centaurs aren't horse-human hybrids, they just sort of resemble horses and humans - convergent evolution (stretching it a bit, but once you have hexapods you're stretching anyways). Which amusingly enough also makes them more closely related to things like dragons and gryphons, which are also hexapods.
     
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  18. RauthrMystic

    RauthrMystic Elf Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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  19. Mirikon

    Mirikon Level 8 (Thug) LitRPG Author Citizen

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    'Lazy worldbuilding'? Sounds like the same kind of talk as armchair quarterbacks critiquing the NFL.
     
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  20. RauthrMystic

    RauthrMystic Elf Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    LOL I've never heard that one! not being a sports fan that makes sense, however I find that phrase giggle worthy. I think it'd be more like a minor league...wait football doesn't have that does it? Hmmmm someone not having the skill thinking they do? see now i've confused myself. lol lets stick with armchair quarterbacks!
     




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