Stopping the LitRPG Trademark...

Discussion in 'All Things LitRPG' started by Paul Bellow, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. Muffassa

    Muffassa Moderator LitRPG Author Citizen Aspiring Writer

    52%
    Messages:
    38
    Likes:
    63
    xp:
    176
    LitCoin:
    107,358
    Zorkmid:
    21
    Saw an interesting tweet today that worried me slightly:

    "Lawyer is rearing to go but still looking for someone to stand up and be the petitioner. Lots of fear out there - who knew? Worries about review bombs, attacks. If you think someone bans you from boards for no reason - do you want him with the power to ban you from Amazon?"

    @Paul Bellow GreatLitRPG has some money from our LitRPG Giveback Fund available if we need to push some capital into this. Not sure if it would be enough though. Let me know if you want to join forces!
     
    LitRPG_chick and Paul Bellow like this.
  2. Gryphon

    Gryphon Level 18 (Magician) LitRPG Author Citizen

    43%
    Messages:
    992
    Likes:
    1,287
    xp:
    943
    LitCoin:
    1,425,677
    Zorkmid:
    360
    Did someone say Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker? Lol
     
    Paul Bellow likes this.
  3. Paul Bellow

    Paul Bellow Forum Game Master Staff Member LitRPG Author Shop Owner Citizen Aspiring Writer

    100%
    Messages:
    9,474
    Likes:
    7,373
    xp:
    5,313
    Zone:
    Midwest, US
    LitCoin:
    14,849,316
    Zorkmid:
    1,344
    Good chat today, man! We'll get this done.
     
    Joshua Mason likes this.
  4. Paul Bellow

    Paul Bellow Forum Game Master Staff Member LitRPG Author Shop Owner Citizen Aspiring Writer

    100%
    Messages:
    9,474
    Likes:
    7,373
    xp:
    5,313
    Zone:
    Midwest, US
    LitCoin:
    14,849,316
    Zorkmid:
    1,344
  5. Jay

    Jay Hiatus. LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

    30%
    Messages:
    755
    Likes:
    1,176
    xp:
    1,059
    LitCoin:
    347,508
    Zorkmid:
    0
    Is he still singing that old tune of "I'm totally not doing it for THAT reason. You can trust me!"? :rolleyes:
     
  6. Dragovian

    Dragovian Over-enthusiastic Tank wtb Pocket Healer LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen

    36%
    Messages:
    95
    Likes:
    164
    xp:
    218
    LitCoin:
    645,608
    Zorkmid:
    127
    Speaking of trademarks, has everyone seen MSE's attempt to trademark a cover design that probably applies to 50% of genre books? Kevin Kneupper is on it.
     
  7. Paul Bellow

    Paul Bellow Forum Game Master Staff Member LitRPG Author Shop Owner Citizen Aspiring Writer

    100%
    Messages:
    9,474
    Likes:
    7,373
    xp:
    5,313
    Zone:
    Midwest, US
    LitCoin:
    14,849,316
    Zorkmid:
    1,344
  8. Viergacht

    Viergacht Thunderdragon LitRPG Author Roleplaying Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

    94%
    Messages:
    756
    Likes:
    1,208
    xp:
    894
    LitCoin:
    60,135
    Zorkmid:
    4
    Oh fer crying out loud.
     
    LitRPG_chick likes this.
  9. Paul Bellow

    Paul Bellow Forum Game Master Staff Member LitRPG Author Shop Owner Citizen Aspiring Writer

    100%
    Messages:
    9,474
    Likes:
    7,373
    xp:
    5,313
    Zone:
    Midwest, US
    LitCoin:
    14,849,316
    Zorkmid:
    1,344
  10. Dragovian

    Dragovian Over-enthusiastic Tank wtb Pocket Healer LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen

    36%
    Messages:
    95
    Likes:
    164
    xp:
    218
    LitCoin:
    645,608
    Zorkmid:
    127
    Contrary to the Redditor's subject line, I do not actually find that explanation "very reasonable".

    Specifically, I have a lot of trouble believing there are that many avid fans who know how to contact the author to tell him "I bought the wrong book", but who don't know to look at the author's name before buying said book. Didn't believe that with Hopkins and her Cocky books, don't buy it now.
     
  11. Paul Bellow

    Paul Bellow Forum Game Master Staff Member LitRPG Author Shop Owner Citizen Aspiring Writer

    100%
    Messages:
    9,474
    Likes:
    7,373
    xp:
    5,313
    Zone:
    Midwest, US
    LitCoin:
    14,849,316
    Zorkmid:
    1,344
    The rich get richer...
     
    LitRPG_chick likes this.
  12. Cadwe

    Cadwe Arrogant cheeky Dragon Lord Roleplaying Shop Owner Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

    4%
    Messages:
    250
    Likes:
    265
    xp:
    504
    Zone:
    Paris (France)
    LitCoin:
    1,294,649
    Zorkmid:
    126
    yeah, the latest one is making me have mixed feelings. I understand MSE more than Kong, but MSE's terms are too broad
     
    LitRPG_chick and Paul Bellow like this.
  13. Jay

    Jay Hiatus. LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

    30%
    Messages:
    755
    Likes:
    1,176
    xp:
    1,059
    LitCoin:
    347,508
    Zorkmid:
    0
    [​IMG]

    Wait, so...he's trying to trademark the most...generic cover ever? Like that is literally 50%+ of romance covers in like...all genres, tons of fantasy books, etc. etc. That is not some crazy distinctive design. That is like the standard format for covers!
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Jay

    Jay Hiatus. LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

    30%
    Messages:
    755
    Likes:
    1,176
    xp:
    1,059
    LitCoin:
    347,508
    Zorkmid:
    0


    He's claiming the same nonsense that the romance writer did. "Oh, people were upset this wasn't my book and contacted me!". I seriously have a very hard time believing that if their fans are that interested in their series, they wouldn't at least glance at the author's name before buying?

    Also, this is giving me the petty urge to make a series involving the name "Tamer" or "Dragon Slayer" or something!:p
     
    LitRPG_chick, Jun and Windfall like this.
  15. CheshirePhoenix

    CheshirePhoenix Crazy Hermit on the Hill LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Editor Aspiring Writer

    96%
    Messages:
    1,279
    Likes:
    1,684
    xp:
    996
    LitCoin:
    1,442,684
    Zorkmid:
    178
    Someone needs to tell MSE that if you register an IP you no longer have a choice in whether to enforce it or not. You either enforce it 100% of the time to the fullest extent of the law, or you lose it. There is no middle ground - you can't pick and choose which infringements you can and can't fight.

    Barring licensing, which is what I think all of this kerfuffle comes down to, no matter what people are saying. The only way to allow someone to use your IP is through paid licensing, and especially for that cover it's just ... super blatant as a cash grab. The thing that makes it even worse is that there's absolutely zero chance of the trademark being awarded, so it's not only blatant, but ultimately pointless. The only thing this will accomplish is making Amazon even leerier about the LitRPG/GameLit genres. It should be obvious by now that the two genres that are getting falsely targeted the most by Amazon's fraud detection algorithms are romance and LitRPG. What is the only thing the two have in common?

    Trademark kerfuffles.

    Bloody idiots need to knock it the hell off and stop being greedy twits who think that other people's success takes money from their pockets.
     
  16. Jay

    Jay Hiatus. LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

    30%
    Messages:
    755
    Likes:
    1,176
    xp:
    1,059
    LitCoin:
    347,508
    Zorkmid:
    0


    Looks like MSE is pulling his attempt to trademark the book covers. However, he's kind of passing the buck and claiming it was the lawyer's fault because he "filed too broad".:rolleyes: Not sure I buy that if the lawyer is as expensive and experienced as implied. I doubt they get as much money as they do by making fairly major "boo-boos" like that.

    He's not backing down on trying to TM "Dragon Slayer" and the other titles though. Most of the rest is kind of passive-aggressive, defensive bullhooey that he's using to justify his rather weak stance in the whole affair. Not much anyone can do, other than protest the trademarks though.

    Now that said, I do feel bad for people getting banned and their livelihoods getting ruined. And I do think that Amazon needs to do more testing before they start tossing bans out based on algorithms. So I'm not gloating over his banning, but I am regarding the rest of this post with some skepticism.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2018
    LitRPG_chick, Dragovian and Windfall like this.
  17. Windfall

    Windfall Level 18 (Magician) LitRPG Author Citizen

    25%
    Messages:
    689
    Likes:
    1,066
    xp:
    925
    LitCoin:
    3,647,673
    Zorkmid:
    257
    I personally don't see anything wrong at all with his response here, and I completely understand. It kinda clearly reflects, though, that it's all a product, a brand, a cash-making machine.

    My stance on it: if you make art, you should have the confidence that there's something unique about your art -- like a personal touch -- that cannot be copied, and that even if it's copied, your readers will know that "This is not you!" and will swiftly reward the copied product with negative reviews and citing your work as the original.

    But if you view the whole thing as a product and all business, well, yeah, protect your 'secret formula', put marketing over quality, maximize profit, whatever. But I'm just sad when so much of the world is about money.
     
  18. CheshirePhoenix

    CheshirePhoenix Crazy Hermit on the Hill LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Editor Aspiring Writer

    96%
    Messages:
    1,279
    Likes:
    1,684
    xp:
    996
    LitCoin:
    1,442,684
    Zorkmid:
    178
    I'm fine with trademarking the name of series and things that are yours, or things that define your brand. But when you go broad like he did, that's just a blatant grab for licensing rights and money. I don't believe him for a second when he says it was the lawyer's fault; no lawyer who's passed the bar and specialized in IP law would ever make a mistake like that. So his retraction smacks more of weasely damage control than an actual "oops, I done fucked up. Sorry." And then the humblebrag about how popular and successful he is? That's just icing on the cake. There are a number of authors in the genre that I refuse to support, work with, or even mention, because of their attitudes and their patently ridiculous belief that other genre authors' successes somehow "steal" money from them.

    I value honesty, accountability, and integrity quite highly. Especially in an industry where networking and reputation is so bloody important. I can understand what he intended to do, and I can even understand why he wanted to do it (even if I don't like it or agree with it - greed is human nature, after all), and everybody makes mistakes. What cheeses me off about the retraction is that he's trying to weasel his way out of it by throwing someone else under the bus.
     
    LitRPG_chick, Jay, Viergacht and 3 others like this.
  19. Paul Bellow

    Paul Bellow Forum Game Master Staff Member LitRPG Author Shop Owner Citizen Aspiring Writer

    100%
    Messages:
    9,474
    Likes:
    7,373
    xp:
    5,313
    Zone:
    Midwest, US
    LitCoin:
    14,849,316
    Zorkmid:
    1,344
    Wait, why are you here with us at the retro forum, then? Just kidding. I try to be aboveboard as possible.

    Almost sounded like he was throwing Cipriano under the bus too...
     
    Jay likes this.
  20. CheshirePhoenix

    CheshirePhoenix Crazy Hermit on the Hill LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Editor Aspiring Writer

    96%
    Messages:
    1,279
    Likes:
    1,684
    xp:
    996
    LitCoin:
    1,442,684
    Zorkmid:
    178
    And Anderle.
     




Share This Page