Stopping the LitRPG Trademark...

Discussion in 'All Things LitRPG' started by Paul Bellow, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. FrustratedEgo

    FrustratedEgo Level 11 (Thief) Roleplaying LitRPG Author Citizen Aspiring Writer

    52%
    Messages:
    191
    Likes:
    333
    xp:
    326
    LitCoin:
    643,487
    Zorkmid:
    202
    See that reddit post? That made me wake up at 3 AM and rant to myself for two hours. I've lost sleep over people letting feelings get in the way of what is legally permissible.
     
  2. Jay

    Jay Hiatus. LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

    30%
    Messages:
    755
    Likes:
    1,160
    xp:
    1,059
    LitCoin:
    343,606
    Zorkmid:
    0
    Honestly, I'm sorry it's stressing you out that much. I'm not being sarcastic or anything. I wouldn't let it bug you that much. People are silly on the internet. Heck, I'm not claiming to be some great expert or immune to being silly on the internet. I try not to be, but hey, I'm human. I try not to let things bug me that happen online too much (although sometimes they do and I know it's silly but that doesn't help. Totally get that).

    I don't like MSE's responses because of his attitude and the thin excuses. I get and can respect someone trying to protect their work, but he's going about it in the wrong way. Yes, I understand he's not doing anything illegal, but he's certainly not helping himself. Again, I don't wish him ill or want him to lose all his money and I even hope he gets back on Amazon provided he's being upfront about not doing anything against the TOS there. He's allowed to earn a living and protect his work. That's fair and that's fine. What he's doing now though is beyond that and that is what personally bothers me.

    If he was being more narrow and trying to trademark distinctive logos or series titles, I wouldn't care even slightly. However, he throws about weak arguments like "No, one's done Dragon Slayer in 70+ years!". That's completely untrue and 10 seconds of Google shows otherwise. The Dragon Slayer movie was back in 1981; admittedly fairly old by movie standards, but certainly not 70 years. The Dragon Slayers' Academy is a series of children books that shows up immediately when you put in "Dragon Slayer books" and it ran from 1997 to 2012.

    I'm glad he's finally getting it and pulling the too-broad ones and putting in more correct trademarks for specific logos. I'm certainly not going to raise an eyebrow at that and it's not as if I'm going to go around trying to ruin the guy for anyone else. If someone says "Hey, have you read this book?" I will say if I have or I haven't and give an opinion if asked, but otherwise, I'm more than happy to leave MSE to his business and wish him success. Just because his books aren't my cup of tea that doesn't mean they don't do it for someone else and that's 200% cool with me. If people love the LitRPG-ish Dino Harem than they do! Different strokes for different folks and I respect that.

    The only thing bugging me is him trying to claim trademarks and ownership of things that are clearly not his. He's more than welcome to claim the ones that are his. Zero problems with that!
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
  3. Paul Bellow

    Paul Bellow Forum Game Master Staff Member Shop Owner LitRPG Author Citizen Aspiring Writer

    100%
    Messages:
    7,969
    Likes:
    6,344
    xp:
    5,313
    Zone:
    Midwest, US
    LitCoin:
    749,822
    Zorkmid:
    181
    That's the big if... We just don't know, and we probably won't ever know. That said, he hung with some less than reputable people in the past, so who knows.

    I do know I enjoy having LitRPG Forum so things like this conversation are moderated and don't get out of control (reddit) or get shut down (other litrpg groups)...

    All that said, we should probably get this thread back on track to deal with the LitRPG trademark problem. Anything else can go in the Aspiring Writers' Guild? Thanks!

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Herko Kerghans

    Herko Kerghans Random Hurler of 2-Cents LitRPG Author Citizen

    60%
    Messages:
    137
    Likes:
    210
    xp:
    180
    LitCoin:
    680,629
    Zorkmid:
    46
    From what Kong posted on facebook, and this being a supplemental trademark, I'd say (without much specific knowledge of US Law) that this case is more or less closed: LitRPG is in wide use right now ("wide" as in "a lot more than just to denote Kong's work"), so in 4 years it's either going to be a common tag (without Kong having the slightlest chance of proving that most people think of him when they think "LitRPG"), or a fad nobody remembers (and if Kong is still around and still wants to use the term, it won't matter; it would be more or less as if he changed his name to "Alleron LitRPG", so to speak).

    Also, as others have noted, for those wishing to take action: AFAIK, the best defense in this case is really a good offense, meaning "use LitRPG as often as possible" (to dilute Kong's association with the term).

    That being said, IMHO the most important part is: in 4 years, either LitRPG will become a common term (and nobody will be able to "claim it by association", so to speak), or it won't matter (so who cares? =)
     
  5. FrustratedEgo

    FrustratedEgo Level 11 (Thief) Roleplaying LitRPG Author Citizen Aspiring Writer

    52%
    Messages:
    191
    Likes:
    333
    xp:
    326
    LitCoin:
    643,487
    Zorkmid:
    202
  6. Paul Bellow

    Paul Bellow Forum Game Master Staff Member Shop Owner LitRPG Author Citizen Aspiring Writer

    100%
    Messages:
    7,969
    Likes:
    6,344
    xp:
    5,313
    Zone:
    Midwest, US
    LitCoin:
    749,822
    Zorkmid:
    181
    For? Or are you talking to @Wyvern ?
     
  7. Paul Bellow

    Paul Bellow Forum Game Master Staff Member Shop Owner LitRPG Author Citizen Aspiring Writer

    100%
    Messages:
    7,969
    Likes:
    6,344
    xp:
    5,313
    Zone:
    Midwest, US
    LitCoin:
    749,822
    Zorkmid:
    181
    I believe it can still be revoked and should be rather than leave it up to chance.
     
    LitRPG_chick and Jay like this.
  8. Herko Kerghans

    Herko Kerghans Random Hurler of 2-Cents LitRPG Author Citizen

    60%
    Messages:
    137
    Likes:
    210
    xp:
    180
    LitCoin:
    680,629
    Zorkmid:
    46
    It's more about, you know, sitting on your porch, and enjoy a cold one maybe alone or maybe in good company, depending how company affects your Cold One Enjoyment stats, and, you know, just wait until you see the coffin of somebody you may not be particularly fond being carried down the street? =)

    Basically, and just my opinion, but: trademarks must be enforced (trademark holders don't have an option here); Mr. Kong publicly said he doesn't plan to enforce it (so even if he secretly plans to, his public statement counts against his trademark claim); but most importantly, if by 2021 the genre is thriving and generally known as LitRPG then even more authors than today will be associated with it, further diluting Mr. Kong's claim (in other words: the only value of claiming LitRPG would be for other authors wanting to use the term; that means that either a lot of authors already would be using it, making the trademark void, or nobody wants to for whatever reason and therefore LitRPG ceases to have value).
     
    Paul Bellow likes this.
  9. Tom Gallier

    Tom Gallier Level 15 (Guardian) LitRPG Author Citizen

    19%
    Messages:
    545
    Likes:
    687
    xp:
    619
    LitCoin:
    671,594
    Zorkmid:
    154
    Yeah, his bid to TM "LitRPG" is doomed. It's in too wide of use already, and it's a frigging GENRE not a series name. I don't fret over it anymore.
     
  10. Jason Maskell

    Jason Maskell Level 10 (Filcher) LitRPG Author Citizen Aspiring Writer

    16%
    Messages:
    164
    Likes:
    176
    xp:
    258
    LitCoin:
    1,404,910
    Zorkmid:
    176
    You quoted me, but other than telling me about BC's visiting habits (how do you know this?) - I don't see how the rest is addressed to me.

    In your reddit comment, you mention you're friends/close with MSE. Defending him is likely to get you downvotes, just like defending Kong would on r/litrpg. I wouldn't take it personally. If you take anything personally on the internet it will probably eventually kill you. It's one of the reasons I limit my internet arguments to 1 post max. I just don't care that much to convince people. Ranting posts, on the other hand, that's got no max count.
     
  11. FrustratedEgo

    FrustratedEgo Level 11 (Thief) Roleplaying LitRPG Author Citizen Aspiring Writer

    52%
    Messages:
    191
    Likes:
    333
    xp:
    326
    LitCoin:
    643,487
    Zorkmid:
    202
    The thanks was to @Paul Bellow for putting this thread back on track.

    @Jason Maskell - I know because I talk to a number of authors on Facebook and Discord and other places. Blaise is on the GameLit Discord daily. The rest wasn't specifically addressed to you but to the thread general. I'm over Reddit for now. I'm done trying to explain to anyone - that includes here.
     
    Paul Bellow likes this.
  12. Paul Bellow

    Paul Bellow Forum Game Master Staff Member Shop Owner LitRPG Author Citizen Aspiring Writer

    100%
    Messages:
    7,969
    Likes:
    6,344
    xp:
    5,313
    Zone:
    Midwest, US
    LitCoin:
    749,822
    Zorkmid:
    181
    I'm trying to get it back on track! ;)

    So many other great threads here. :)

    negative4.JPG negative3.JPG negative2.JPG negative1.JPG
     
    LitRPG_chick and Dustin Tigner like this.
  13. Joshua Mason

    Joshua Mason Steam Whistle Alley LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen

    76%
    Messages:
    120
    Likes:
    166
    xp:
    288
    LitCoin:
    854,975
    Zorkmid:
    167
    This is a good sign. Amazon included a LitRPG button on their latest audiobook sale. Maybe a sign that they're starting to recognize the genre, and not care so much about the TM. Good news?
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Jay

    Jay Hiatus. LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

    30%
    Messages:
    755
    Likes:
    1,160
    xp:
    1,059
    LitCoin:
    343,606
    Zorkmid:
    0
    That seems like a good sign to me. And definitely good for the genre to get more mainstream as well.
     
    Dragovian likes this.
  15. Conor Kostick

    Conor Kostick Level 10 (Filcher) LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen

    92%
    Messages:
    119
    Likes:
    213
    xp:
    296
    Zone:
    Dublin, Ireland
    LitCoin:
    1,162,439
    Zorkmid:
    47
    I have a framed one of those!

    P1011100.JPG
     
    Paul Bellow, Viergacht and Jay like this.
  16. Paul Bellow

    Paul Bellow Forum Game Master Staff Member Shop Owner LitRPG Author Citizen Aspiring Writer

    100%
    Messages:
    7,969
    Likes:
    6,344
    xp:
    5,313
    Zone:
    Midwest, US
    LitCoin:
    749,822
    Zorkmid:
    181
    Trying to show his name as the "official" LitRPG site? Hrm...

    Does not bode well. I need to contact some people and see what's up with the attorneys...

    @Dawn Chapman you hear anything?

    soitbegins.JPG
     
    Jay and Dragovian like this.
  17. Muffassa

    Muffassa Moderator LitRPG Author Citizen Aspiring Writer

    52%
    Messages:
    37
    Likes:
    59
    xp:
    126
    LitCoin:
    64,005
    Zorkmid:
    17
    SoItBegins.JPEG

    that made me LOL
     
    Paul Bellow likes this.
  18. Jun

    Jun Level 13 (Assassin) LitRPG Author Citizen

    8%
    Messages:
    409
    Likes:
    427
    xp:
    426
    LitCoin:
    415,031
    Zorkmid:
    27
    Nothing to worry about imo. Kong is going to do what Kong wants to do. Just because he says his site is official doesn’t make it any more true than him being “The Father of LitRPG.” The guy has an ego and he’s gonna stroke it with every fiction he creates every chance he gets.
     
    Paul Bellow likes this.
  19. Paul Bellow

    Paul Bellow Forum Game Master Staff Member Shop Owner LitRPG Author Citizen Aspiring Writer

    100%
    Messages:
    7,969
    Likes:
    6,344
    xp:
    5,313
    Zone:
    Midwest, US
    LitCoin:
    749,822
    Zorkmid:
    181
    Yeah, I thought it was kinda funny.
     
  20. Viergacht

    Viergacht Thunderdragon Roleplaying LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

    94%
    Messages:
    730
    Likes:
    1,170
    xp:
    894
    Zone:
    South Africa
    LitCoin:
    0
    Zorkmid:
    0
    I wonder if it's actually passion for the genre or potential moneymaking at this point - the thing in his screed about wanting to have influence on a potential movie (even if it's not his book???) makes me side-eye it.
     
    Jay likes this.




Share This Page