The orcs of chaos

Discussion in 'Debates & Discussions' started by Dragon, Feb 7, 2020.

  1. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 13 (Assassin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    That's what I said/meant. Didn't mean force it into vassalage but "vasssal it" through the proper procedure
     
  2. Dragon

    Dragon Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    So when you say "chaotic beasts" do you mean some kind of native sentient with a chaotic alignment or do you mean an actual chaotic beast? Because to be a vassal likely requires some level of intelligence.
     
  3. Michael Clack

    Michael Clack Level 4 (Warrior) Exiles Citizen

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    Actually, I was going back through the book trying to refresh my memory on this and I'm not so skeptical about a chaos seed being a vassal anymore. With that being said, I'm thinking his old pet would have worked. It could have granted him a chameleon ability or something like that.
     
  4. Waterhobit

    Waterhobit Level 9 (Burgler) Citizen

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    Wow I had to go back and reread but you are right. The word Chaos Seed is not mentioned anywhere in the discussion of Chaotic Vassals. I would assume of course that a Chaos Seed may be uniquely qualified for such a role, and perhaps might increase the benefits. I am not of the opinion though that his old pet would have qualified as a vassal. I think any being capable of being a pet would be lacking a level of sentience required to be a vassal. I do think this means that any sentient being with a positive chaotic alignment would qualify though.

    Another point to be made is that the "chaotic" in Chaotic Reptile refers to its association with chaos magic, whereas chaotic being appears to reference a person with a positive chaotic alignment. I don't think beasts have alignments.

    This brings back up a question that I would like an answer to. How would someone like Sion for instance develop a positive chaotic alignment? Is it earned through actions? Would he need to absorb chaos points somehow?
     
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  5. Dragon

    Dragon Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    How would an animal be a vassal? That makes zero sense.
     
  6. Michael Clack

    Michael Clack Level 4 (Warrior) Exiles Citizen

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    You cut me deep, Water. I thought we were pals. Lol. It actually does mention chaos seed once but didn't make it clear that they were the preferred vassal (Richer believes they are though).

    I'm confused where vassal = sentience. Was there something I missed? What I remember about it is only that they must have a chaotic alignment and that they will offer bonuses/perks depending on the nature of the vassal. Attacking each other cancels it. That's about it.

    I don't see how a chaotoc beast wouldn't qualify for this.

    <edit> maybe I'm not thinking about the word vassal properly. I'm thinking of it in terms of ruler - subject. The only difference between this and tame is vassal enters the relationship by choice and has the ability to opt out of the relationship. Not tamed, not charmed, not a pet. Wild and free, but chooses to follow.

    Maybe you guys are saying that a beast can't make this choice. I don't know. The snake showed some emotion. So did the mauler. Seems possible
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
  7. Michael Clack

    Michael Clack Level 4 (Warrior) Exiles Citizen

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    Lmao. Tell me how you really feel, Drag. By the way, it looks like we were both wrong about the talent point conversion. When I first drew it up, I had it at 10 levels. You corrected my math, but stopped it when there was a 1:1 ratio (level 6?). Looks like it goes beyond that bet it doesn't specifically say what the next level will grant.
     
  8. Dragon

    Dragon Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Did Richter upgrade the conversion talent in book 8?

    I just don't think it makes sense that an animal companion could fill the role of a chaotic vassal. The word vassal implies an intelligent actor that owes some level of personal allegiance to their liege. It also says said vassal can leave at any time, again implying at least some intelligence.
     
  9. Michael Clack

    Michael Clack Level 4 (Warrior) Exiles Citizen

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    Yes, and sadly again we're both kind of right and wrong. See below. Screenshot_20200604-141147_One UI Home.jpg
     
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  10. Dragon

    Dragon Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    He does :)


    You have used Talent Point Conversion V. By expending 2,892,000 experience, you have now gained: 482 Talent Points. All experience earned will suffer a 50% penalty until this experience is repaid. 1,452/3,845,000 XP to Level 46

    Kong, Aleron. The Land: Monsters: A LitRPG Saga (Chaos Seeds Book 8) . Tamori Publications, LLC. Kindle Edition.

    I still say 5000 a pop is likely where it caps. Currently the effective price is 9000 exp per point though, so getting the next one seems like a gimme. Saving 4000 exp per point would help make it a much stronger talent.
     
  11. Dragon

    Dragon Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Loving it :D Way to prove me wrong.

    Though he also says that its a bad idea to choose something that cannot reason, so intelligent vassals might still be the way to go.

    Edit: I agree, i did not see your first line
     
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  12. Michael Clack

    Michael Clack Level 4 (Warrior) Exiles Citizen

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    I was curious. Lmao. I agree, sentient beings is the logical way to go. And I agree about the conversion.
     
  13. Chard

    Chard Level 3 (Apprentice) Exiles Citizen

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    I think I agree with the vassalage can only apply to sentient beings (the direct statement from the author is kind of convincing). But not all summoned creatures Are insentient.
    I cannot remember the exact name of his summoning scroll. But just because it’s summoned doesn’t mean it doesn’t have sentient.
     
  14. Johan

    Johan Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Only some were confused by the quote. Though I would also be confused if I heard someone saying it in the middle of nowhere.
     
  15. Waterhobit

    Waterhobit Level 9 (Burgler) Citizen

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    What if all 5 are chaos seeds? Richter was impressed by how well they worked together and how seamless the timing of the skills was. What if a close-knit gaming group was transported to the land and were intentionally deposited together by the Lords of Chaos. They played favorites already by giving Richter such an impressive ability set, and deposited him in a prime starting location. Maybe they provided an advantage to these 5 in much the same way.
     
  16. Dragon

    Dragon Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Yeah but already professional warriors with somewhat advanced talents? That sounds like Richter level luck.

    I think the four are natives, but the fifth guy could be a chaos seed granted a powerful stealth ability that can fool tier 2 Richter despite a massive gap in power between them. Basically the perfect starting ability if you want to be a rogue, assassin, thief or scout. All of these roles would fit right into a vassal slot on Richter's team, especially the scout.

    Maybe the orcs were hunting the fifth pair of eyes and were fooled into entering the wurm lair? Fifth pair would be perfectly fine as long as none of the wurms have the ability to break his concealment, just waiting for a chance to pick over the orc corpses and any surviving loot once they are done eating.

    Alternatively, he could have been stealing from the orcs for a while (being stranded underground in a strange area with no way to gain food on your own would make that seem palatable to anyone no matter how honest) only to get discovered and pursued out of their territory and into an unknown (to either party) monster lair. He/ she may have been watching in horror as the orcs were torn apart, having never intended for them to die.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
  17. Michael Clack

    Michael Clack Level 4 (Warrior) Exiles Citizen

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    I get the feeling that whatever the 5th set of eyes is, it will become his vassal. In really warming up to the idea of Richter being granted one of the abilities of the chaos seed that becomes his vassal. For example, Richters abilities are limitless and gift of tongues. If he can get more, that would make him a powerhouse.

    It might seem OP, but his tier 2 being is Legendary and unique to the land thus far. The main thing it grants is the ability to have vassals. It has to be amazing.
     
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  18. Dragon

    Dragon Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I'm imagining the liege page has a ton of permanent upgrades as well as temporary buffs you can buy using chaos points. Like an upgradable buff that gives 5% extra damage at the cost of 1cp. Pay chaos points for power.

    Temporary use of someone elses ability - with their consent - could be a buff as well.
     
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  19. Waterhobit

    Waterhobit Level 9 (Burgler) Citizen

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    I had wondered if the liege page might allow him to provide changes and buffs to the vassal with their consent. For instance if a troll CS were his vassal he might be able to provide a race change that would make them an elf, or he could be given atribute points to spend on them that would only last for as long as they remained his vassal. Maybe they gain CP's from being his vassal in the same way that he gains from them. And maybe they could be given access to his level of the Sea of Chaos. That would be a huge boon for a vassal.

    Yea, you're probably right.

    It's probably either this, or the 5th pair is their leader.
     
  20. Dragon

    Dragon Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Given the situation Richter stumbles upon, it does not seem to me the orcs were prepared for the wurms at all. The four professionals were the last survivors of a large band.

    No matter how I look at it, it does not seem like a planned operation.
     
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