Vassalage in practice

Discussion in 'Debates & Discussions' started by Johan, Mar 8, 2020.

  1. Dragon

    Dragon Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I doubt that, for reasons I explain in my extended post above. Basically, this evolution is a chaos point hog designed to swallow as many chaos points as it can. He never needed to kill every seed he met, doing so would have been counterproductive to his longterm goal of ruling the river peninsula. He needs a new ally more than he needs a random piece of gear.

    On a sidenote, 2 chaos seeds with 3 chaotic would generate 72 points a week. Thats 7200 points after 100 weeks. initial cost to rank was 500, 1000, so if we assume a similar calculation up till the highest rank.

    500 + 1000 +1500 + 2000 +2500 + 3000 + 3500 + 4000 + 4500 = 22.500, or 312.5 weeks if he spends points on nothing else. Which is unlikely given he will also neeed to buy upgrades on his liege page and chaos seed killing gear from the sea of chaos (as well as a ton of other things he cannot get elsewhere that his team of chaos seed killer killers will need to match the more murderous seeds).
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2020
  2. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Could swear we already went over this, cant find the posts though, seems the thread or chain was removed?

    If he's efficient he can clear rank 9 in ~60 weeks np, and that is if he's stuck with 2 chaotic vassals for his time as a chaos lord. Every vassal he has reduces the cost of upgrading by 100 points per point of chaos alignment of the vassal. Also the total base cost of getting to rank 9 from rank 1 is 18000. (Technically rank 1 is free, and rank 2 costs 500 points). So far when he ranks up the vassals give more points per CA. Carrying that through with everything else, were he to get his hands on 2 vassals with a chaotic alignment of 3 immediately, his total cps needed to reach rank 9 drops from 18000, to 13,700 (could have been 13,200 but he already purchased it). If he finds a way to gain more than just 2 vassals, this entire race to rank 9 drops to essentially nil. (18 weeks if he can keep adding CA +3 everytime he opens a new slot, assuming he can match his rank in Chaos lord with the same number of vassals).

    Here's the calculator I made in another thread. Again, just place a dot in dot com
    https://drive.google com/file/d/1vn5Cp-_7p8MVRXF6H7WjQwJulahEoOJC/view?usp=sharing

    Initially the spreadsheet was to analyze which CHOICE would have been better (Double benefits vs increasing vassals), bit of a mixed bag there
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2020
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  3. Johan

    Johan Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    We have not gone over this yet. At least not from this perspective. Just the thread where you made the spreadsheet. It deserves its own thread. A good solid going over of his choice...and the other options, because they will be brought up.
     
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  4. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    There may be a one time bonus for securing a vassal. Even if its an instant 25 cp's per chaos level. One vassal at chaotic 2 alignment (i highly doubt he finds a chaotic alignment higher than his own) would be 50 point bonus, then doubled once for his choice and once more for his blessing would be 200 cp's right there. Two vassals then would be 400 and on top of that it reduces his cost to rank 3 by 200. If he levels a time or two and kills a chaos seed or three, he could be rankimg up again fairly quickly. Which would allow him another vassal and the bonus/reduction that comes with it.
     
  5. Dragon

    Dragon Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    We discussed earnings, not how long it would take to rank to the ninth tier. I believe we ended up agreeing that for each point in chaotic alignment Richter would earn 12 chaos points per week. That's what your own factsheet shows. Which is 72 chaos points per week at rank 2 with 2 chaotic vassals with +3 in chaotic alignment. If he needs 18000 points to reach the ninth layer it will take him several years with two, even decreasing the cost by 1600 points.

    I find the idea of the +3 vassals unlikely, Richter has a greater chaotic aura and is one of the specially selected few that got extraordinary gifts from the lords of chaos, landing him at a solid chaotic(2). I think its far more likely most other seeds start out at chaotic(1) or at true neutral.

    This ignores the entire liege page, as well as the need to equip his vassals for the chaos seed battles. Undoubtedly the enemies will be armed with weapons designed to cost 2 or more lives such as the chaotic dagger. Not having such weapons would put them at a disadvantage.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2020
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  6. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Couple things to keep in mind, the cp's from vassals increases with each rank.

    Also, Richter was "chosen" to be a chaos "monster" and kill the murderous chaos seeds. These would be the other chaos seeds who would be most likely to have several hundred chaos points on hand. He got over 100 from He Man. I could see him and his vassal(s) coming up against a "player killer" party and netting several hundred all at once.
     
  7. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I agree he likely won't find perfect +3 vassals, I'll add in some tables to account for it

    But the big point is
    Which will drastically decrease times in general
     
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  8. Hastur

    Hastur Level 7 (Cutpurse) Exiles Citizen

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    He was not "Chosen". "Choice is the essence of chaos" He was given the choice.

    I find it odd that with Chaos seeds being drawn to the area that Richter has only found one, yeah he probably found another or maybe even 4 with the Orcs. But Heman found a bunch. Very possible that soon he could be running into them a lot. With a lot of Chaos seeds that means vassals and killing opportunity and that means more chaos points. End of line.
     
  9. Hastur

    Hastur Level 7 (Cutpurse) Exiles Citizen

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    Also with ranks will he not get the opportunity to have more vassals as well?
     
  10. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    That's not really confirmed, there's the possibility (and it would be much more powerful for it) but with those wierd "?" symbols in kindle its hard to be certain. Currently, he has 2 vassals at rank one and 2 vassals at rank 2. This could be a typo, this could be his max, this could be his max until he is able to explore his liege page.
     
  11. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    It is probable that Heman and the basilisk alliance are/were intercepting chaos seeds as they made their way towards him. Now they also have high level monsters roaming about, from awakening the PoP to bar them from access to Richter. He's not an easy man to reach really.
     
  12. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    There is a typo somewhere, when he increased his rank it said he went from 1 to 2 vassal slots.
     
  13. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    My bet is its 1 vassal slot per rank.
     
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  14. Dragon

    Dragon Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    That would be the simplest explanation. I think I agree with this idea.

    One thought that struck me is that we have seen Aleron use the pattern (1, 2.5,) 5, 10, 25, 50, 100, 125, 250, 500 in several other places. 50.000 chaos points would be a lot to pay for one rank, but it is a legendary class and he does have the option at breaking off at fifth rank, meaning he could make the choice to discontinue after paying the first 9000 chaos points. At worst it would cost him 94.000 to go all the way.

    He may be able to increase number of vassals or point generation further by using the liege page. I hate undermining my own arguments like this, but it seems like something that would be available, at a fairly high cost say 5000 to 10000 chaos points for rank 1 for extra points and maybe half that for an extra vassal slot?.
     
  15. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Added another sheet in other thread that assumes rank is equal to vassal slots, and goes through scenarios for perfect +3 vassals and +1 vassals only

    If this is true, then double benefits easily outstrips the extra 3 vassals he'd have gotten, in chaos points.
     
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  16. Andrew Lynas

    Andrew Lynas Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    The Liege Page might also offer ways to increase his Chaos Point Earnings and decrease Rank Costs?
     
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  17. Dragon

    Dragon Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Liege increases to generation rates would make sense on a liege page, decreases to the costs of ranking up would be a maybe. They'd basically undermine the ranking cost system from within the system itself which seems a bit weird.
     
  18. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Could be some kind of talent point conversion-y option
     
  19. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I imagine there are options on the liege page about increasing benefits to underlings too.
     
  20. Dragon

    Dragon Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Gathering vassals seems like the main power of the chaos lord evolution and the main point sink.

    The powers of a Chaos Lord are mighty, but their true strength comes from the creatures of Chaos they rule over.

    Kong, Aleron. The Land: Monsters: A LitRPG Saga (Chaos Seeds Book 8) . Tamori Publications, LLC. Kindle Edition.

    I suspect a large number of bonuses, including skill/ exp bonuses. Combat, defence, magic, crafting, gathering, exploration, courage, stats, the list of areas that could be boosted goes on and on. With new/ higher ranking versions when he ranks up in his evolutiion or someone reaches a major milestone (similar to the warleader promotions). Some will have to be bought for each member (the really good and expensive ones) while others can be bought for the whole team. Suddenly everything is p2w.
     
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