RANT What do you HATE in a book?!

Discussion in 'All Things LitRPG' started by Kidlike101, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. Kidlike101

    Kidlike101 Level 18 (Magician) Citizen

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    @CheshirePhoenix

    Maybe you're thinking of another book.

    Ancient Ruins by Benjamin Medrano
    Published January 16th 2017

    Dungeon Born by Dakota Krout (nice guy!)
    Published October 8th 2016

    Here is the origin story Ancient Ruins =

    A demoness is killed and her soul is trapped in a red gem by a sorcerer, in time her memories fragments and she thinks of her self as a gem only. the man is attacked and the gem is robbed changing hands until it reaches it's final owner and is buried with her.
    time passes and her memories grow dimmer until the tome is upset and the gem is thrown into a puddle. she absorbed the energy from the puddle and the magic in the ground under it. the seed of a willow tree that was with her grows there into a huge tree and she learns to control the flow of magic (some how because magic) and lives in the tree... because, no reason she just lives there.


    The Origin story of Dungeon born =

    A Human (male) is killed and his soul trapped in a BLUE gem by a necromancer, the man is attacked in a raid and he drops the gem into a puddle.
    time passes and the human's memory fragments. it gets progressively bad until he can no longer remember not just his name but what happened 5 minutes back.
    in time he learns to absorb the elemental magic in the puddle and the moss around him gaining some essence.
    A wisp decides to become his partner and brings him a seed of a silver bark tree and asks him to help it grow. she places it in the puddle next to him and with the magic in the water and in the gem it grows into a large blessed tree he now lives in as it's a holy tree to the elves and they will protect it and by extension the gem stone hiding inside it's grove.

    how close are those two? the story forks after that, Dungeon born continues to build on the at with the events playing out in the gems life (dungeon core) affecting his growth. Ancient ruins just says, f**k it she was a demoness and is OP, the origin story is over now lets get on with the next part. That's why I said it was Fan Fic, it goes on to what the author was working on originally instead of building on the story.
     
  2. CheshirePhoenix

    CheshirePhoenix Crazy Hermit on the Hill LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Editor Aspiring Writer

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    Nah, there's actually quite a few dungeon books:

    A Living Dungeon (standalone novel)
    Divine Dungeon (two books so far)
    Slime Dungeon Chronicles (trilogy, so far?)
    Dark Dungeon (two books so far)
    Ancient Dreams (trilogy, published *before* Divine Dungeon)
    Reborn as a Dungeon Core (two books so far)
    The Laboratory: a Futuristic Dungeon Core (coming in September)
    Dungeon Core (book one is due out in October)
    Dungeon Hive Trilogy (one book so far)

    I'm sure there's more than that, but those are the ones I've either read or have on my to-buy list.
     
  3. CheshirePhoenix

    CheshirePhoenix Crazy Hermit on the Hill LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Editor Aspiring Writer

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    Ah, yeah. I flipped them around backward.

    Even so, I don't think either one plagiarizes the other - the only similarity I can think of is that there's a tree involved in each of them near the dungeon core.

    Dungeon wisp: only in Divine Dungeon
    Tree: source of power in Divine Dungeon, actual dungeon Core in Ancient Dreams
    Harem: only in Ancient Dreams
    Demons: only in Ancient Dreams
    Etc.

    None of that crosses the line into either fanfic or plagiarism, the books are just too dissimilar.
     
  4. Kidlike101

    Kidlike101 Level 18 (Magician) Citizen

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    The whole Dungeon core thing is turning into a sub-genre of litrpg now.

    I have no beef in this fight though as I'm not the author of any of the mentioned books lol, when one book pretty much copy/pastes the plotline AND specific events of another people tend to notice. Just look up ancient Ruins review page on good read.

    Arguing that there are others like it or with a similar idea doesn't hold water, there is similar, there is inspired by and then there is (oh great idea. I'll take it whole sale add some fluff and call it my own!)

    In fairness this is closer to what Weirdest noob did, I have yet to come across one original line in this book! Bah, I swear it's like my IQ is dropping with every page. someone remind me why I'm doing this to myself!?!
     
  5. CheshirePhoenix

    CheshirePhoenix Crazy Hermit on the Hill LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Editor Aspiring Writer

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    Ancient Dreams isn't a dungeon novel in the way that Divine Dungeon is. It doesn't focus on the dungeon at all, but rather on the war between slavers and elves. The dungeon itself is relegated to little more than a footnote that crops up in a few plot points here and there.

    I don't really have a horse in this race either, I'm just honestly flabbergasted that anyone could read the two books and think "oh snap, this one is totally derivative/plagiarized" because, to me at least, there is almost nothing similar about them beyond "oh look, there's a tree in a dungeon and an adventurers guild exists in the world".
     
  6. Seagrim

    Seagrim Level 18 (Magician) LitRPG Author Citizen

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    The Dungeon core stories are not really LitRPG, but they are given a bit of a free pass. They are similar to the game Dungeon Keeper, however, they are really from the Xianxia Chinese novels. The Taoist principals of elements is usually described with a system similar to RPGs leveling systems so it's usually accepted.

    Autoerotic asphyxiation theory of literary enjoyment?
     
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  7. CheshirePhoenix

    CheshirePhoenix Crazy Hermit on the Hill LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Editor Aspiring Writer

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    I dunno. It's one of those weird sub genres that fit into any number of different ones. Like, it's got the mechanics of a litRPG but it's not a game. It's got the feel of high fantasy, but you can tell there's crunch roiling away just below the surface. It's got the transportation/reincarnation aspect of a portal fantasy, but there aren't any portals involved. It's got the classic dungeon crawl action of ye olde D&D novels, but from the opposite point of view.

    It's pretty difficult to classify the dungeon novels in any specific genre, and they don't have enough of a defined presence to really merit their own.
     
  8. Matthew James

    Matthew James Blind Beholder Beta Reader Citizen

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    The whole dungeon theme reminds me of some of the older "kid horror" movies.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Matthew James

    Matthew James Blind Beholder Beta Reader Citizen

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    Dungeon Core stories get the same free-pass as Sci-Fi LitRPG stories. They have game-like features but because the genre type is more RTS or Tower Defense type game in nature anything can get thrown into the mix and be acceptable because there is a build up, action, and then rebuild phase. Sci-Fi simulations get a pass because everything about sci-fi like upgrading ships or tech and relying on futuristic HUDs (see Star Trek: Into Darkness scene where characters are shot out of torpedo tubes towards an enemy ship) is pretty game like. Dungeon Core stories get a pass because they are usually like those movies I linked above with a kinda goofy horror vibe.

    Its definitely game-like, but I don't think the cultivation that Seagrim talks about is really necessary for the stories to get qualified as LitRPG, because unlike crunchy fantasy LitRPG adventures nothing else in LitRPG is held to that same standard.

    As far as the convo between Kidlike and Cheshire goes about the comparison between the two novels:

    Those movies I linked remind me of outdoor dungeons, so (without having read either =P) I'd say its plausible that if the dungeon theme continues on above ground, it could totally be an extension of the "core" at the heart of the story... but that would require the whole story be linked to the core and have development of the elf areas where this war from the story takes place. Even if those are separate, that whole puddle + core thing sounds similar to me...
     
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  10. CheshirePhoenix

    CheshirePhoenix Crazy Hermit on the Hill LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Editor Aspiring Writer

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    The differences are legion, really. Ancient Dreams isn't even what I would call a dungeon novel at all, while Divine Dungeon is a "classic" (if there is such a thing with such a young subcategory) dungeon core novel, where all of the action outside some brief interludes is within the dungeon itself.

    A character is introduced within the first quarter of Ancient Ruins, and that's pretty much when it stops being a dungeon novel and the afterthought becomes "oh and there was maybe some dungeon delving going on in the background."

    Just having a tree and a puddle in an underground dungeon isn't enough of a similarity to call it - especially when in one of them, the tree itself is the MC-chan where in the other it's little more than a MacGuffin.
     
  11. Kidlike101

    Kidlike101 Level 18 (Magician) Citizen

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    I refuse to be the M in the relationship with my Kindle!!! ;u;
     
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  12. CheshirePhoenix

    CheshirePhoenix Crazy Hermit on the Hill LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Editor Aspiring Writer

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    But there's no S in autoerotic?
     
  13. Ian Mitchell

    Ian Mitchell Level 15 (Guardian) LitRPG Author Roleplaying Shop Owner Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    I hate boring. I liked the Mirror World books. I found the Noob one annoyingly derivative. I enjoyed both Slime Dungeon and the Divine Dungeon.
     
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  14. Kidlike101

    Kidlike101 Level 18 (Magician) Citizen

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    how is slime dungeon? I checked the reviews and alot of people complain of it needing some proof reading, but other then that how is it?
     
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  15. Ian Mitchell

    Ian Mitchell Level 15 (Guardian) LitRPG Author Roleplaying Shop Owner Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    I had fun with it. Gave it 5 stars on amazon. Looking back at my review I can see it wasn't an informative review. I avoided the book for quite a while over the cover. I bought the book that followed it as well. It felt more like a game setting, with the dungeon buying new options. Not a cultivation novel.
     
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  16. Kidlike101

    Kidlike101 Level 18 (Magician) Citizen

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    I'm fine with that, most reviews on good read focused on the typoes and editing required, I can over look that (to an extend... I'm still human or so my passport says!) for a good story, I've avoided it for a long time because of those reviews. guess I'll just grab the sampler and give it a look, with 5 stars it can't be that bad XD
     
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  17. Ian Mitchell

    Ian Mitchell Level 15 (Guardian) LitRPG Author Roleplaying Shop Owner Beta Reader Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    I'm fairly easy reviewer wise. Mostly 4 & 5's. If I made it through the book it will get at least a 3. 1&2's would be books I didn't finish. After a fair amount of beta reading I can dodge the potholes in the road. Bore me and I'll put your book down.
     
  18. CheshirePhoenix

    CheshirePhoenix Crazy Hermit on the Hill LitRPG Author Beta Reader Citizen Editor Aspiring Writer

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    I use a 2-4 star system myself. Authors deserve at least that much just for finishing and publishing, which is something I've never done. 3 stars is for average, 4 stars is really good, and 5 stars are for those rare gems that I think are as close to perfect as it's humanly possible to get. I also rarely ever post an actual review unless something - good or bad - sticks with me.

    I think out of all of the books I've read, less than 10 have gotten that 5 star rating from me.
     
  19. Paul Bellow

    Paul Bellow Forum Game Master Staff Member LitRPG Author Shop Owner Citizen Aspiring Writer

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    The stars are different on Goodreads and Amazon. On Amazon a 3 is considered negative while even a 2 is "it was okay" on Goodreads, I think?

    Anyone hear of Book Lamp and the Book Genome Project before? Apple bought them out, but I'm hoping the technology leads to better discoverability for books.
     
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  20. Kidlike101

    Kidlike101 Level 18 (Magician) Citizen

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    sounds fair to me, with me it's the overall feel of the book. I reserve my 1s and 2s for books that fall under the tag "soulless"

    admittedly alot of YA books tend to end up there. not sure if it's just me or if some authors confuse young with moron!!!! ^^;
     
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