The title says it all What kind of stats do you like to see in a story? What do you deem important and what should just be ignored? I've been toying with what I want to use in my own story and would love the input of the forum. Personally I don't like intelligence as a stat that can be changed. If it is used it should just be a set number depending on the race of the character. Also luck is like a get out of jail free card IMO and I think it's best left out of the story. So I guess my favorite stat block would be something like this: Strenght Dexterity Constitution Willpower Wits Charisma Willpower would be the mental resistance, but I'm not sure what I would like for the rest of the mental attributes. Something like wits or perception? A stat that would show how "sharp" a character is? Let's go with wits for now So what do you guys think? Would my statblock work? Am I missing something? Let me know what you think!
I'm a big fan of having three different kind of stats: [Physical, Mental, and Social] or [Physical, Mental, and Spiritual]. For physical attributes, there should be some way to determine how strong, agile, and tough a character is. Similarly with mental attributes - how mentally powerful a character is, how flexible their mind is, and how resistant it is to outside forces. And once more for social. You need to know what kind of social presence the person creates, how flexible they are in social situations, and how pliable they are. If each of those can be represented with two stats instead of three, all the better. To that end, I've gone with the base stats offered in Fantasy Flight Games' Genesys RPG for The Maker's Blade. Brawn Agility Intellect Cunning Willpower Presence
Penis size! Oh. Wrong stats. I love seeing what authors come up with so I don’t have specific stars I like. That said I have two things I look for. One is how the stars are used. I love the way the original Fallout had a stat test plus random chance for nearly everything. So that style is my default good system which, understandably, few books match. I suspect it would get old to have a dice roll for everything. Maybe it exists in LitRPG and I just haven’t arrived at it yet. My second one is the similar to PS2572 in that I don’t like intelligence and similar stats when the player has full control anyway. In most of what I’ve read it just ends up being a mana bank. I thought Tao Wong’s System Apocalypse was going to do something interesting with it but it turned into a mana bank. It would be interesting if someone did a low int character the way Fallout did, limiting interactions and speech.
In The Maker's Blade, while Intellect doesn't determine interactions and speech, it does limit how well you can understand lore clues found in the game world, as well as whether the system AI will automatically make connections between those clues and other ideas for you. Also, characters with higher intellect do more Arcane spell damage, and have greater access to spell actions than those with lower intellect. They also get the option of learning additional languages.
It sort of depends on the story for me. I do like to see the basics (Strength, Speed, Agility, etc.) and see them actually affect the story. If the person suddenly has 10 more points in strength, make some mention of it being easier to lift something or swing the sword or just anything. I also like to know if the stats are generalized as in "average strength of 10 applies to all humans" or if the stats are specific to that particular character. For example, if it's specific to that person, 10 strength is the highest they personally can go, but their 10 strength might be less than someone else's 7 strength because they're smaller, slimmer, or whatever. I actually kind of like the second idea because it makes so much more sense than just allowing someone to potentially have limitless strength regardless of physical features. I really kind of make a face at Intelligence as a stat as well because it's so rarely done 'properly'. Threadbare did it very well for the little golem bear, but most stories just go "Oh, I got +5 in intelligence. SWEET" and they never get any smarter, think any faster, or really have it do anything but up a few mana points at best. I mean, I get it. Writing someone more intelligent than you is often difficult; I don't mean it insulting to anyone. I mean, I doubt I could successfully write someone who was a spectacular genius myself, simply because my brain doesn't function the way someone like Stephen Hawkings or Einstein's did. They made logic leaps and figured out things in ways that were just unique to them, which is why they were so exceptional. It's hard to "fake" that writing because for 90% of writers, it just comes off as awkward or just like the smart character is having everything come too easy. I prefer something like "Wits" or "Perception" or "Willpower" as those are things that are a lot easier to show in a story well without trying to figure out how someone with 52 points in Intelligence might think differently from someone whose got 12 intelligence.
In much the same way that Strength is often used as the means by which someone uses brawn-based items and interactions, Intelligence can be used to determine whether someone can access knowledge-based items, game lore, or clues. It doesn't mean the player can think more clearly or think faster. It means that the character gets certain benefits. I mean, think about what you just said. You're disappointed that the player who is playing the character isn't any smarter or doesn't think any faster. But the player doesn't get stronger when they get Strength upgrades, only the character does. If we apply Intelligence (or Intellect, or Smarts, or Knowledge) to the character itself, rather than to the player, it can be used for mechanical purposes just like any other stat.
Fair enough. My opinion is probably colored because most of the ones I read are the 'trapped in game' scenarios. So the player is the character. They are supposed to be getting stronger, faster, smarter. If it's a scenario where it's a player who can log out of the game, it's different, but I still think Intelligence is a poor choice of words for a stat simply based on the fact that it's very rarely actual Intelligence being upgraded, but something else. Using your example, knowing game lore isn't Intelligence. It's memory. Figuring out clues is Deduction, which isn't the same as Intelligence. You can have a very high Intelligence in real life, but know absolutely nothing about history or how to read the clues of a crime scene, etc. That said, it's an interesting idea is a "not trapped" scenario to have the character itself be able to read something and comprehend, or hell, even the player. It definitely has the potential to be used well and I see your point. My own point is that it's rarely used well and it's kind of a pet peeve to see some character crowing about how high their intelligence is then be an absolute idiot. So I should have phrased it better to say "I normally don't like Intelligence being used because it's rarely utilized in that I find makes sense. So I prefer seeing them use another term because then it flows better for me."
@Simon Fiasco You know, you actually got me thinking about how Intelligence could be improved in a game sense of the word... If your mind is basically part of an AI system or at least connected to it while you're connected in game, upping your Intelligence could be done. The AI might make your 'synapses' fire more quickly so you think faster. It might heighten your observational skills so you notice things more quickly. It might improve your memory so you never forget anything. It could allow you to process data faster so that you could learn skills or languages more quickly. Hell, in theory, the AI could even "rewrite" some of your pathways and 'algorithms' to make your mind more efficient and intelligent. There's actually a ton of potential for Intelligence to be used and improved in a game situation. I haven't really seen in done in a book yet, but that's not to say someone hasn't or someone won't. Definitely food for thought though.
THIS! I want this book please? Write it. Oh and include Magic. Awesome magic. and maybe dragons! Seriously thought in the novels that their game interfaces directly with the brain there would be so much more happening than a random video game. I can't see how that wouldn't affect your brain. I think they'd have to specifically program it not to. As to stats I think that's a great question. Like many other answers here what I like to see are stats that actually impact game play. Intelligence is already such a hard thing to define for humans so the only reason to keep it would be that it is part of the "trope". I do like the "mind, body, spirit" idea. Well I think @Simon Fiasco said social but i think social is aggregate stat. Your interactions with others will depend on your physical appearance, your ability to pick up emotional cues and subtle (or not so) body language, and not to mention your ability and willingness to empathize, listen, and respond. There is alot that goes on in interpersonal interactions that we take for granted. Those of us who spend most of our week alone, reading and watching youtube can see that =0) If you didn't get that, I do like aggregate stats. Stats that are created from two or more other stats. I suppose it adds a layer of complexity to the novel that doesn't need to be there. I think though, that it also adds depth. The thing is, that it all depends on what kind of game your characters are playing. What works well stats wise for one game may be terrible for others.
I like stats that are familiar so I don’t have to feel like I’m learning a whole new system to understand a story. Mine is a heavily modified version of the White Wolf / Onyx Path d10 system so there are 9 attributes broken down into three categories physical (strength, dexterity, stamina) social (Charisma, Manipulation, Appearance), mental (Perception, Intelligence, Wits).
I'll have to check those out. I don't think I'm familiar with Onyx Path. I like that breakdown a lot though.
Onyx Path was created to continue the Old/Classic World of Darkness product lines after White Wolf officially discontinued them. Most of the WW staff went to Onyx to continue their work.
Oh. Awesome. I'll have to check it out. I remember playing old White Wolf World of Darkness games, but it's been probably 15+ years now. My groups moved onto Pathfinder and D&D mostly. I actually really do like the break-down of Physical, Mental, and Social so I might have to figure out a variation for the current game/world I'm working on. I was working on another system, but it was very simple because it was a setting with animals. I wanted to do something a bit more complex that gave a stronger MMO feel instead of something more like a "Sims" kind of feel. I'll definitely check the Onyx Path out.
My upcoming book is using "Heart Containers" rather than HP since it's more an action RPG like Zelda or Seiken Densetsu. When you level up you can pick either a mana or heart container. Otherwise, I'm just using Strength, Agility, Intelligence, Charisma, and Precision. I left Wisdom out since wisdom is largely subjective and hard to quantify. I made it so that the stats affect the person's physical and mental makeup. A person with a high strength score has bones stronger than steel and muscles to match. High intelligence scores let people solve differential calculus problems in their heads. There are some derived stats for attack and defense which combine with your weapon. I've also added class specific stats, like the couch potato's Amusement Index.
My own stats, or rather the stats for the story I'm working on. I'm going to do ...maybe... Body Str Dx Ag Mind Int (Sorry @Jay I can't seem to find an appropriate replacement) Perception Charisma (as in the force of ones personality, Beauty would be a 2ndary or aggregate stat) Spirit Wis Resistance Essence (of Self) OKay that was harder than I thought it would be. HP would be an aggregate of some kind. One novel made it so that regardless of whether your a 'glass cannon' or a 'tank' you gain hp each level. I'll need to find that again and perhaps revisit these stats but I think I've got the basics covered (which is what primary stats are for) *edit* what do you think of changing ST to Brawn? I think they are pretty much the same but maybe brawn is a bit broader?
Actually, @Simon Fiasco gave me some ideas so I'm giving Intelligence a whirl in the story I'm working on right now! My immediate question is what is the difference between Dexterity and Agility? Not arguing they can't be different, just in my mind they're pretty similar so I was curious about that. Also, what is Essence that's different than Wisdom? I like the layout. I'm just curious about the details!
Dex and Agi are the easy ones. Dexterity is with your hands, agi is with your legs/body. Someone who is dexterous in real life are magicians, whereas a gymnast would be agile. They certainly cross over eachother in places but I feel that they are different enough to matter. Agi would impact speed, dodging, reflexes, balance type things. While dex would impact traps (setting and disarming), using a bow, slight of hand tricks, making complex hand movements/shapes (in the case of some spell casting)...things of that sort. Now Essence and Wisdom are a bit harder. The Spirit was hard for me in general so I'm still somewhat shaky on it. however wisdom is the ability to pull from experience and make sound decisions at its very core. in my mind wisdom also covers the ability to make intuitive leaps in logic. Intuition being the important word there (there would be no 'logical' connection or reason for the connection perhaps). IRL we use wisdom to use the knowledge of drinking and driving to NOT do so. It's empathy with the world, it's listening to the emotions behind words which can change their meaning or give you two different messages. Essence is more ephemeral. If wisdom were an extrovert, essence would be an introvert. It's that certain something that makes up who you are. It's striped of personality (cause that's cha). However the deepest parts of your belief system live here. Your integrity and how far you'll bend your integrity. Some might say it's the essence of your soul. If Cha were the ego, then Essence would be the Id (minus any nefarious intentions) thanks for making me think on those. I'm still somewhat shaky but even now I have a better idea and feel more comfortable with having those there
I was working on a tabletop RPG years ago that included three stat groups - Physical, Mental, and Spiritual - and three stats in each group. The first of the stats indicated raw power, the second the amount of finesse the character displayed, and the third, their fortitude. As a result, I had... Physical Strength (Power) Agility (Finesse) Endurance (Fortitude) Mental Intellect (Power) Cunning (Finesse) Resolve (Fortitude) Spiritual Presence (Power) Wisdom (Finesse) Essence (Fortitude) The nicest thing about the way it was set up is that it clearly delineated what all the attributes did without too much further definition.
@Simon Fiasco thank you for your input! I like it. It's simple....buuuuuut it doesn't have charisma lol that being said did all magic users in that world use INT for their casting stat?
In that game? No. Different types of magic required different attributes. Keep in mind that magic was all elemental in this game, so Fire was Resolve, Air was Agility, Earth was Strength, Water was Cunning, Light was Presence, and Shadow was Essence. (I abandoned that game a long time ago, and all the files are on an old drive I don't have access to at the moment, so this is all from memory and might be wrong.)
