Dungeons in the Land (Possible Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Debates & Discussions' started by Johan, Feb 13, 2020.

  1. Johan

    Johan Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    (Thought vomit)

    I don't remember it being mentioned that anything would come out as loot, though an argument can be made for it. It was mentioned that the Labyrinth is everything, but there needs to be restrictions on what can be gained from the Labyrinth reliquary, or we will just get any random stuff. You have found a beta max. "What is a beta max? I don't know but it is rare. Maybe a gnome will know".

    What is a Labyrinth Reliquary vs our Loot Balls? The payout is disproportionate to the level difference between a loot ball creature and Labyrinth one. It says they are steeped in a greater magik concentrate than loot ball creatures. They gave out a gem he didn't deposit, and an enchanted sword. But the sword seems proportional to the payout of the other creatures. There is also I higher chance of obtaining a Reliquary. They are also this far relevant to Richtær as a humanoid and the technology level of the MV or The Land, he didn't get a gun.

    I don't think the payout will increase drastically, because that seemed dependent on danger and Mana ...density/concentration. I do believe he will no longer need rooms to obtain stuff, so he probably will no longer make a crafting room any longer to have his crafter and jeweler make rings to be given as rewards, nor will he need to have Krom make armour and weapons to feed to the forge. These all both great, no need to waste crafters.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
  2. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 13 (Assassin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Thread for (D)ungeon talk and discussion


    Had a thought on the Harbinger for the Barrow of the Chaos Serpent



    So in book 8 Richter reached a Plateau at level 45 which is one of the lowest for sapient races. We also see a tier two monster for possibly the first time. Definitely the first time it was described as such, but no being sure.

    I also recall that as the dungeon levels up, so to does the the Harbinger's minimum level as described by:

    (H's level upon becoming the H) + (Dungeon level) = minimum level of harbinger upon respawn.

    Does this mean that once the Harbinger's minimum level reaches the equivalent of the base creatures plateau it could possibly ascend to a tier two/higher harbinger? Or do Harbinger's become exceptions to the plateauing rule?
     
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  3. Johan

    Johan Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Maybe more for a Dungeon thread, but will Richtær make a law that everything found in a Reliquary will be handed over unless it has been found before (with compensation)? Maybe he can set the tax system to grab everything new to the system for a copper unless the price is already set, though I doubt it.

    Enchantments and lots of other goodies will not be accepted by the Dungeon because it still won't have the proper rooms for them. But things like plants, minerals, ...like stuff will be great. The enchantmented items and crafted items the Dungeon can't take can be used by Richtær. Technology manuals can be given to the Scholars house or Library.
     
  4. 2tymes

    2tymes Level 7 (Cutpurse) Exiles Citizen

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    I didn’t even think about that but yeah I think that the harbinger will eventually tier up. To take it a step further I would assume the reason the the quickening was added way back when is because the village as a whole if going to eventually ascend. If ultimately he’s going to be fighting the exiles.
     
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  5. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 13 (Assassin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Well textually an Evolution shows a change of nature or something similar. The quickening celestial evolution would still see them all at tier 1, but with celestial augmentation. Same with messeji, dragonet (my guess but it seems right), and other evolutions we have seen so far. The angel Hisako summons against Modara is still a tier 1 being most likely given its stats per level.

    Ascension, or moving up tiers, seems to be moving up an entirely different axis. Increasing power gain by an order of magnitude rather than simple addition or a minor multiplier.
    If the bonus to damage and resistance continue a tier one human still does 100% of damage dealt to a celestial tier one being with zero other resistances, but does zero damage of any kind to a Tier Six mouse with zero other resistances.
     
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  6. Andrew Lynas

    Andrew Lynas Level 14 (Defender) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Can't wait to see what the Dungeon Shop entails and offers.
     
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  7. Johan

    Johan Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    (from the main thread)

    Is that your position on Labyrinth reliquaries bonus? It could very well be the case.
     
  8. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I like the idea of reliquaries of the labrynth actually meaning that the labrynth resources are now available for the production of loot balls.

    So I could see this meaning only things that the barrow has discovered via the well or other absorbtion methods can be produced still, however the infinite resources of the labrynth can be utilized to produce them.

    This would be truly epic because it means:

    Enchanted weapons/armor/items (potentially master crafted level)
    High level alchemy
    Tefonim jewlery
    And...


    Wait for it...


    MAGIC CORES!
     
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  9. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    He would still have to nut up and sac a core, but if he got a message that basically said his dungeon should be able to produce anything now then I would do it if I was him. I would also sac the rest of the tefonim stuff.
     
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  10. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Part of the reason I like this is because he should already be getting loot directly from the labrynth in the form of treasure chests. Seems reduntant to get it from the loot balls now too, at that point why even sacrifice valuable things to the dungeon?
     
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  11. Dragon

    Dragon Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Because the dungeon is a far safer and more controlled version of the labyrinth?

    In the dungeon you have an idea of what powerlevel you are likely to face. Sure you might face something far beyond the average level for a floor, but thats probably never going to happen as they have two people with direct influence over it. In the labyrinth anything can show up and they have no influence whatsoever. .
     
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  12. ShoughtLoud

    ShoughtLoud Level 13 (Assassin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    He was commenting on the Reliquaries of the Labyrinth bonus. If it does include the entire loot pool of the Labyrinth then Aleron just got rid of a need for the Well of Offering, beyond sacrificing things to advance blood and power motivations which it can do through regular dungeon absorption already. Vs if loot balls are still limited item wise to what the dungeon has learned from fallen parties/ its own well of offering, but the Labyrinth actually generates the loot instead of the BotCS using DPs to do so.
     
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  13. Dragon

    Dragon Level 15 (Guardian) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Seems I have misunderstood. I disagree strongly with the general idea, and I really hope it isn't the case as it would be way OP and destroy the dungeon as a balanced storyelement.

    I've explained why farming the labyrinth is likely to be far more dangerous, It follows that if you can get the same loot from the dungeon thats a superior hunting ground. Hence at the moment, the more you sacrifice to it, the better. High-levels would still need to enter the labyrinth occasionally, but lower levelled adventurers and soldiers should be able to find all they need within the relatively lowrisk dungeon or buy it from the crafters (another reason unlimited high-quality loot from the dungeon is a really bad idea).

    Having noticed the mythic bonus for the first time. i'm going to make the guess that there will be a chance, likely a small one, of spawning labyrinth reliquaries instead of regular dungeon ones. Replacing them entirely would destroy one of the basic mechanics that limit the effect of having the dungeon. It also removes any reason to ever enter the labyrinth, Richter has portals for fast travel, node roads aren't that useful on their own if you do not need them to reach far off regions of the labyrinth (after all, everything is already on your doorstep).
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
  14. Joe Schmoe

    Joe Schmoe Level 11 (Thief) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    I get what youre saying her and this is exactly how i was thinking it would work when i read the book. However, after having a little more time to mull it over, i like the resources of the dungeon idea better for several reasons.

    1. There is already a small but real likelihood of finding treasure chests. The chests are filled by the labryinth, not the dungeon. So basically, they are the exact same thing that you described with the small difference that the reliquaries are dropped after killing a dungeon beast, and the chests are just found. At least thats my understanding. So if you're correct, essentially the mythic gift just gave him more access to labryinth loot while in his own dungeon, which is obviously great. But perhaps not mythically great, at least in my opinion.

    2. Furthermore, if your theory is correct, my point was that they would have enough access to rare and powerful loot from the labryinth that they may not want to sacrifice things of great value to the dungeon, because they would no longer need to sacrifice awesome things in order to receive great loot.

    3. In the resources of the labryinth theory, essentially it removes all of Richters barriers to the dungeon producing things like enchanted items and high level alchemy. It would not make more valuable things more likely to drop though, the risk to reward ratio would stay the same.

    4. The resources theory would actually encourage him to sacrifice increasingly valuable things like the tefonim jewlry with no guarantee that the dungeon would make them any time soon, but at least the comforting knowledge that it could indeed make them at some point.

    5. Lastly, this is pretty much the only way i can think of for richter to be able to safely drop a magic core into the well and not get a prompt that the dungeon cant produce it without x room or resources.
     
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  15. Johan

    Johan Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    One option I could see happen is a value upgrade. The difference would be between the amount of coin he got from the pigs vs the chupacabra, normalized against creature level.

    The other is having the same value of reliquary from Dungeon like the blood balls, but with a much expanded treasure base to pull from. So there would be no rooms needed for the new goodies but they will be low quality.

    The third option is a skin upgrade, like you buy on games for your avatar.
    ::PAL::
     
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  16. 2tymes

    2tymes Level 7 (Cutpurse) Exiles Citizen

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    His dark mastery perk is going to come into effect as well +30% yield from treasures. I just wonder is that just for him while in the dungeon or is it for the entire village
     
  17. Johan

    Johan Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    The dark mastery is bull shite. What will help him out is his mark and Speciaizations.
    Mark:
    +14% Incidence of Finding Treasure.
    +14% Yield of Treasure
    Speciaization:
    For each Treasure Chest rank, up to +10% occurrence
     
  18. 2tymes

    2tymes Level 7 (Cutpurse) Exiles Citizen

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    so you find more treasure and there’s 30% more there... sounds like a win win
     
  19. Johan

    Johan Level 16 (Paladin) Exiles Beta Reader Citizen

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    Unless it has been working behinds the scenes without us knowing, the perk is broken, and not in a good way.

    Eagerly Awaiting Book 9 [SPOILERS!]
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
  20. 2tymes

    2tymes Level 7 (Cutpurse) Exiles Citizen

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    Broken in what way would you say? If I’m not mistaken his life ability give him 25% to the growth of his village plus the quickening increases the growth of the village by whatever amount plus the dungeon increases ambient mana and resources. And the life perk hasn’t seemed broken. I use that as an example because that’s the only other perk with tangible rewards
     




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